Jag har baserat beräkningarna på detta verktygD daVinci skrev:
https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html
Då får jag med 15 kWp med 70 graders lutning (i Roslagen) ca 225 kWh under december, dvs snitt på 7,25 kWh per dag. I januari får jag ca 310 kWh, vilket blir ett snitt på ca 10 kWh per dag. Det borde räcka för hushållsel dessa månader. Jag har gått igenom alla mina elförbrukare hemma, och för min del skulle det vara möjligt.
Vänliga häslningar
Håkan
Huset är obebott, bara värme 15 grader pga rörsystem, jag är i en process att flytta. Jag ska satsa på isolera källare osv .... Men är under detektiv arbete vad går elen , jag förstår helt medveten att uppvärmning kostar 😵💫 men 5000 kWh per månad , januari 7000 kWh för bara uppvärmning känns illa och därför frågar , har jordvärme och tittar alla möjliga ideer för att skaffa andra sätt att värma huset 🥴 tack för svar 🌻D daVinci skrev:
Som en liten datapunkt så har jag bott i ett 70-tals tveksamt isolerat hus med 2-glasfönster på ca 200 kvm. Det läckte ca 200 W/grad skillnad. I ditt fall med 5000 kWh så talar vi om en snitteffekt på 6700 W. Om det skulle läcka likartat så talar vi om en temp skillnad på 33 grader. dvs 15 inne och -17 ute.Y yaesomi skrev:
Antaget elvärme.
Och då kan det vara relevant att isolera mer.
Har du egen brunn?Y yaesomi skrev:
Kolla så att pumpen inte går hela tiden.
Leta så att du inte har någon/några värmeslinga som står på.
Du bör kanske skaffa något som loggar elförbrukningen, och prova att slå av lite olika saker och kolla när det gör en stor skillnad.
Man kan ju även kika på den blinkande lysdioden och räkna antal pulser, men den övningen blir de flesta som inte har alltför kraftiga autistiska drag snabbt less på.
Kanske något i den här stilen
https://www.kjell.com/se/produkter/...energimatare/athom-homey-energy-dongle-p52222
Denna mäter på blinkningarna
https://www.kjell.com/se/produkter/...rient-smart-energimatare-for-elcentral-p52023
https://www.m3.se/article/2161351/homewizard-wifi-p1-matare.html
https://www.m.nu/sensorer-wifi/elmatare-for-p1-han-med-ethernet-och-wi-fi
Att börja mäta är din snabba väg till att förstå vad som händer.
Det finns många produkter, det är lite av en djungel, vill du ha saker med en egen display, att du har en app i telefonen, eller att det är kopplat ihop med något automationssystem.
Ska du mäta på elmätarens HAN-port (ofta det enklaste), är det P1-port, eller RJ45, eller ska du mät på blinkande lysdiod?
Jag kan inte ge några direkta råd, försöker bara peka ut lite ungefärliga riktningar på olika vägar framåt.
Jag har själv gjort precis det Mikael_L beskriver. En elmätare på P1 porten, som jag kan monitorera på min mobil. Om du inte har P1 port så finns det, precis som Mikael_L säger, el-mätare som mäter blinkningarna på elmätaren., Sedan har jag stått vid säkringsskåpet och slagit av varenda säkring. Efter det har jag slagit på och av en säkring i taget och kollat hur mycket det drar när den är på.Man får ha lite tålamod så man får rätt värde. Där jag hittat oväntad förbrukning så har jag sedan gått runt och plockat ur varje apparat som är ansluten på den säkringen, och sedan kopplat in dessa var för sig. Det tar lite tid, men det har gett väldigt mycket insikt i vad som drar i mitt hem.Mikael_L skrev:
Du sa du hade jordvärme. På min värmepump så kan jag gå in och kolla el-förbrukning, och även dess historik. Då kan man även isolera hur mycket som är ren värmeförbrukning.
Det är ju mycket pengar det rör sig om.
Vänliga hälsningar
Håkan
Men nu finns en skön bastu man kan njuta iupnorthandpersonal skrev:
Work when you live off-grid never ends
Detta verkar vara ditt första inlägg - välkommen till Byggahus.se
Du har samma logga som bloggen
https://medium.com/@upnorthandoffgrid
Om det är samma person, så vore det kul om du kan dela med dig insikter, som du kanske inte hunnit med att skriva om i bloggen. Jag har läst igenom den, och lärt mig mycket.
If you like english better, we can switch to that instead.
Vänliga hälsningar
Håkan
Swedish is fine. I can read it, I just don't write.H HåkanV skrev:Men nu finns en skön bastu man kan njuta i
Detta verkar vara ditt första inlägg - välkommen till Byggahus.se
Du har samma logga som bloggen
[länk]
Om det är samma person, så vore det kul om du kan dela med dig insikter, som du kanske inte hunnit med att skriva om i bloggen. Jag har läst igenom den, och lärt mig mycket.
If you like english better, we can switch to that instead.
Vänliga hälsningar
Håkan
And yes, same person from the blog. I noticed some traffic coming from here on my analytics page, so I came to say hi
Some insights that are not (not yet anyway, next entry) on the blog are mostly related to maintenance and preparedness for when things break. When you're off-grid, it's not enough to just have systems that work, you have to keep them working. Batteries and solar is easy, practically no maintenance, but things like heating systems etc. require regular checks. Glycol can go bad and cause issues, fans and pumps need to be checked (sewer, wood boiler), etc. You also need spares for anything that could potentially break and would make life very difficult if they couldn't be replaced or repaired immediately. You can't rely on calling tech support to have them send over a technician after a winter storm when it's -40C and you're snowed in - if your heating or inverter doesn't work, things can get dangerous.
But all things said, the freedom of not having monthly utility bills makes it worth it + all the knowledge you develop designing and building something like this makes you much more all-round and valuable to others (helping them out with stuff, or even from a company perspective where you gain a tremendous amount of technical skill doing this).
Hej Mikael ! tack för enorma tips, jag ska kolla vilken mätare skulle lämpa sig , det är en djungel, jag har lyckas idag ta bort propparna som leder el till övriga små stugor och hundstället där hittade jag vissa slingor. o andra sidan jag har inte egen brunn eller det finns men är inte till bruk. fastigheten för vatten genom en förening där alla vi som bör har betalar för underhåll osv. då finns inte pump till vatten. det är bara värmepumpen som är till drift just nu. Den som gäller för den blinkande rod lys i el mätare, lyser som galen och bara skrämmer mig varje gång jag ser 😌. Tack igen för allt tips då ska jag kolla med extra el mätare då hoppas jag hittar boven i detta mardröm.
Mvh
Thanks for sharing. Your experience as shared on the blog has been very nice to read. Especially, since in many discussions, off-grid has been associated with living without modern appliances. Or require very large investments. But seeing your blog, I can see that "normal standard living" is quite feasible. And you live quite further north that I do.Swedish is fine. I can read it, I just don't write.
And yes, same person from the blog. I noticed some traffic coming from here on my analytics page, so I came to say hi
Some insights that are not (not yet anyway, next entry) on the blog are mostly related to maintenance and preparedness for when things break. When you're off-grid, it's not enough to just have systems that work, you have to keep them working. Batteries and solar is easy, practically no maintenance, but things like heating systems etc. require regular checks. Glycol can go bad and cause issues, fans and pumps need to be checked (sewer, wood boiler), etc. You also need spares for anything that could potentially break and would make life very difficult if they couldn't be replaced or repaired immediately. You can't rely on calling tech support to have them send over a technician after a winter storm when it's -40C and you're snowed in - if your heating or inverter doesn't work, things can get dangerous.
But all things said, the freedom of not having monthly utility bills makes it worth it + all the knowledge you develop designing and building something like this makes you much more all-round and valuable to others (helping them out with stuff, or even from a company perspective where you gain a tremendous amount of technical skill doing this).
I see that you have gone off-grid in all aspect, with not only your own electricity, but also with water and sewage.
I myself have looked mostly on the electricity aspects, and have ended up with similar considerations as you have implemented. Solar power and battery. Wood based heating, I but have mostly considered a pellets stove for heating. I have also been considering an ordinary wood stove as back-up, just in case...
And then minimize household electricity to around 5 kWh per day, which is something that seems to be able to be generated, on average, with solar panels even in the winter (15 kWp, 70 degrees slanting, and faced to the south - unobstructed view. Based in the Stockholm area.
Things can of cource break, but this winter there has also been some quite long electricity outages which also causes problems.
Looking forward to learn more from your experiences, either on this forum, or on your blog.
Kind regards,
Håkan
Yes, I wanted to be free from monthly bills so to speak. Even in middle of winter: solar here generates practically nothing, but I make my own bio-diesel in summer so I can charge the batteries with that in winter using a generator. I wrote an outline on how that works on my other site:H HåkanV skrev:
https://www.upnorthandpersonal.net/
I only need 5kWh of electricity per day in winter, which means a only 200 Liter of diesel or so is typically needed. Very easy to make such small batch. You can run the generator at its most efficient working point to charge the batteries, so you get most out of the fuel. With a large battery pack like mine, and decent size generator, I can just run it once or twice a month to top up the batteries.
That was one of the main reasons for me writing it all down. It took me quite some years before starting to build. The main reason: 15 to 20 years ago when I first had the idea, the technology wasn't there. Then when I made the decision to build, panel prices were dropping (my first panels I imported from China still, but the 5kW array I'm adding this year I just buy locally), DIY LiFePO4 cells were coming down in price (again, first ones I got from China, now I get them from eg. NKON in The Netherlands). Both panels and batteries are pretty cheap nowdays: panels are cheer than roofing material, so if you build a car port, just use solar panels for the roof for example.H HåkanV skrev:
I wanted to make sure people did not just have this idea that you outlined regarding off-grid. There is a middle ground where you spend a reasonable amount of money up front, which gives you energy self sufficiency, without compromising comfort. And if I can do this at 63 degrees north, everyone south of me can do it too.
Redigerat:
Thank you for your link to your other web page. I had not seen that one. I did enjoy the reading. And I think the set-up would be quite a lot easier if one would start today. E.g. NKON do now sell ready made battery packs for quite a reasonable amount, which would take away the hurdle of having to assmble these by one self. And they do come with a warranty. Solar panels are, as you say, possible to buy locally at low prices. I have seen them for less than 200 Euro per kWp.
The challenge that I think has been toughest is really the possibility to generate electricity during the 2-4 darkest months. My approach has been to plan for overdimensioning of the solar panels, which, at the prices today, is not too expensive. There is still the challenge of finding a good spot for them, where they can catch the low laying sun in december. Other solutions would be a generator, such as yours. I do think though the producing your own bio-diesel might scare some poeple off... Still, bio-diesel is also availble to purchase. At first the cost per kWh for this might also scare people off, but if one has taken the step install solar panels, and to heat the house by other means, the the cost per kWh for the "on-grid" electricity during 4 dark months when solar is not enough, is also very high. Assuming 5 kWh per day for 4 month gives about 600 kWh total. During 2025 the variable cost of electricity here was about 1,75 kr per kWh. And the monthly fee (for me) was 710 kr per month. And to have this electricity during these 4 month, I would have to pay the monthly fee all year around. So these 600 kWh would cost me 600*1,75 + 12*710 = 9570 kr. Which would be almost 16 kr per kWh.
As I said, I hope to cover most of the electricity during these 4 month by over-dimensioning the solar panels, and then hopefully require a lot less electricity from a generator. Even though the average generation from solar in december, for the set-up I am looking at, would generate the required amount, I think I still would likely install a back-up generator.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences, it gives me hope that my plans could actually work
Kind regards,
Håkan
Yes, you can do that. Look also into mounting them vertically. Someone else here in Finland did that and he has a huge demand (needs to keep his swimming pool warm). Check his thread here:H HåkanV skrev:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/m...finland-plus-now-15kw-roof-mounted-too.51584/
Montering av solpaneler på fasaden är utmärkt för elproduktionen under vintermånaderna. Men här i Sverige kräver det bygglov. Vet inte hur svår det är att få.
Vissa hus har utmärkta läge för det, med stor vägg i söderläge utan skuggning.
A very nice thread and forum. Both educating and entertating
I will try to register there.I have been planning to install my cells at something like 70 degrees, so hopefully that should be enough. I use the JRC tool and the difference between 70 and 80 does not seem very big.
I am not planning that type of overproduction though, but then I do not have a pool to heat to 30 degrees centigrade during winter...
But it defintely shows that the production I need can be acheived even in December. I looked at his numbers and he had 400 kWh in December 2023, and 800 kWh in December 2024. And that at a latitude of 62 degrees north (would correspond to halfway between Hudiksvall and Sundsvall). So 150-200 kWh in Stockholm seems very reachable.
There are also a lot to learn about how to source the components for solar power in the forum, to lower prices than I found.
So, to me, it seems as technology is ready, at the right price level, to make going off-grid a very feasible proposition. The biggest hurdle in how I have planned it, does not seem to be the technology or price anymore, but rather the possibility to find a good spot for the solar panels. I am lucky in that situation. But also the solution you are having with a generator, is very feasible and since you are only running it only one or twice a month, it is really not that much extra work.
So now it is more of getting out and doing this
Kind regards,
Håkan
If I can ask another question. One reason for me to consider pellets based heating, is that you can attach the burner to a storage and it will be able to run by itself for a couple of weeks. So I could travel away for a period of time.
What is your solution should you be away for some time? Do you have any heater that can run by it-self over a week or more. I was thinking that since you have your own bio-diesel, you might perhaps have a diesel based heater for such occasions. There is even Finnish ones from Wallas https://wallas.fi/cottage/
Kind regards,
Håkan