Det kanske går med offgrid ändå?

[upnorthandpersonal]

What is your solution should you be away for some time?

The house is designed to go cold. The water lines are drained, the heating system uses glycol to prevent issues. All other materials are chosen so that it's not a problem, even if temperatures inside reach well below freezing.

 

[HåkanV]

The house is designed to go cold. The water lines are drained, the heating system uses glycol to prevent issues. All other materials are chosen so that it's not a problem, even if temperatures inside reach well below freezing.

OK, that is a pragmatic solution, and would take away any worries that the heating would fail while being away for a period. Which, by the way, is a concern even when on-grid. A relative of mine experienced a not so nice situation during a winter holiday when there was an electricity power failure. First a broken water pipe when heating did not work, and then water running from the broken pipe when the heating returned... Nowadays I always turn off the main water to the house when going away for more than a few days in the winter.

Still, for myself I would like to keep the house at least at 15 degrees while being away. Then I could also keep the fridge and freezer running. This has made me lean towards a pellets-based furness. Alternatively I have been thinking of a combination of pellets stove when at home, and a diesel-based heater (in line with those Wallas offer) when away travelling.

In my case, a heat pump would work with the solar power generated in the other months of the year. So it is really for vacation trips during the roughly 4 months where solar will not be enough, that a solution is needed. Total run time in "vacation mode" would be in the order of a couple of weeks.

Kind regards,
Håkan

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Nowadays I always turn off the main water to the house when going away for more than a few days in the winter.

Make sure you also remove the pressure (by letting the tap run once the main connection is turned off). The reason pipes burst is because of the pressure build up when ice forms, not necessary just because ice grows.

Still, for myself I would like to keep the house at least at 15 degrees while being away.

I do that in the shoulder seasons with the heat pump. I tend to have excess during those times (like now really) so heating is done by heat pump instead of wood anyway. But yeah, not possible in winter here.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

and a diesel-based heater (in line with those Wallas offer) when away travelling.

I have one diesel heater as well which I'll likely try to couple with the sauna building. Smaller space to heat, faster to heat up, and having a warm place to come back to after a potential trip is nice (although prepping the fire place with wood before going and lighting it when coming back is pretty nice).

 

[HåkanV]

(although prepping the fire place with wood before going and lighting it when coming back is pretty nice).

It sure sounds nice

I registered on the forum you linked to, diysolarforum.com and I have found it very enjoyable to browse through. And I realize my plans for solar are quite un-impressive...

One of the members of that forum has a set-up of 75 kWp solar panels and 234 kWh LiFePO4 battery bank. I guess that is also an indication that prices have come down to levels where even such installations is feasible for private use.

My intention is to start realizing my set-up during the summer this year (I know, we Swedes tend to plan a lot before starting...), which also gives me time to source material at best possible prices. And also give me time to go through techniques and learnings that you and others has posted on the topic.

Kind regards,
Håkan

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

One of the members of that forum has a set-up of 75 kWp solar panels and 234 kWh LiFePO4 battery bank. I guess that is also an indication that prices have come down to levels where even such installations is feasible for private use.

Some of us are trying to be the first to 1MWh. I have a plan for a battery container, but I lack time. I think another member reached 500kWh. Some of us are a bit crazy

My intention is to start realizing my set-up during the summer this year (I know, we Swedes tend to plan a lot before starting...), which also gives me time to source material at best possible prices. And also give me time to go through techniques and learnings that you and others has posted on the topic.

Sometimes planning is good. It's something I always recommend first on the forum: do a power audit, be realistic, do a cost calculation, use pvgis to see how much you tend to get at the worst time of year, etc. before buying anything. Also, plan for the future: don't start with 12V when you think you might need bigger later. Go with 48V right away; upgrading to a 48V system with 12V batteries is a pain. Make sure you have the space to expand future batteries, plan components for charge controllers (All in One systems have limits, what if you need more? Individual components are more work, but are more flexible in the long run). Think redundancy etc, as well, and proper fusing and other safety mechanisms.

 

[HåkanV]

Some of us are trying to be the first to 1MWh. I have a plan for a battery container, but I lack time. I think another member reached 500kWh. Some of us are a bit crazy

With 500 kWh, I could be without sun for more than 3 months... Even though prices have come down, it might be somewhat of an overkill for me...

 

[HåkanV]

Sometimes planning is good. It's something I always recommend first on the forum: do a power audit, be realistic, do a cost calculation, use pvgis to see how much you tend to get at the worst time of year, etc. before buying anything. Also, plan for the future: don't start with 12V when you think you might need bigger later. Go with 48V right away; upgrading to a 48V system with 12V batteries is a pain. Make sure you have the space to expand future batteries, plan components for charge controllers (All in One systems have limits, what if you need more? Individual components are more work, but are more flexible in the long run). Think redundancy etc, as well, and proper fusing and other safety mechanisms.

My plan is to go 48 V from start, seems to make a lot of sense.

One thing that I am looking at is to see how to get a tax deduction offered here in Sweden (one could get 50% of material cost back on the taxes). But the rules are such that I have to pucrhase the battery pack and installation as a joint pack from a company.

So I could buy a battery pack from one of the companies that offer this and pay 70 000 kr for a 10 kWh battery pack + their cost of installation. Which would cost me 35 000 kr after the tax deduction.

Or, I could source the battery pack from e.g. NKON and get a complete battery pack with 10 kWh for about 15 000 kr. Then comes the cost of installation by an electrician (same cost as above). But in this case there is no tax dedcution offered.

So either buy the 10 kWh at 70 000 kr, and get 35 000 kr back on taxes (i.e. 35 000 of the tax payers money)
Or buy 10 kWh at 15 000, and get no money back on taxes. Still by far the cheaper solution.

I am trying to find an electrician that would be willing to do the purchase of the battery pack from NKON (with a reasonable margin) and install it. I would be happy to take the warranty totally transparently (i.e. it would be my responsibility to contact NKON in case of failure of the pack). If I am successful, then the tax deduction would apply.

So far I have had no luck, it seems as the Swedish companies are happy selling 10 kWh for 70 000 kr, instead of 15 000 kr as can be found in other countries... And the Swedish rules for the tax incentives seems to cement the situation.

I have still not given up though, will continue the discussion with electricians in the Stockholm area. I have to the summer...

Kind regards,
Håkan

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I am trying to find an electrician that would be willing to do the purchase of the battery pack from NKON (with a reasonable margin) and install it. I would be happy to take the warranty totally transparently (i.e. it would be my responsibility to contact NKON in case of failure of the pack). If I am successful, then the tax deduction would apply.

So far I have had no luck, it seems as the Swedish companies are happy selling 10 kWh for 70 000 kr, instead of 15 000 kr as can be found in other countries... And the Swedish rules for the tax incentives seems to cement the situation.

The Nordic market in general seems to be ready for some 'disruption' when it comes to home batteries. All we need is some entrepreneurial electricians it seems.

 

[HåkanV]

The Nordic market in general seems to be ready for some 'disruption' when it comes to home batteries. All we need is some entrepreneurial electricians it seems.

I agree fully.

But at least the EU open market rules allow me to buy from e.g. NKON in Holland, with no problems of duties and import troubles.

I did find some really good sections on the DIY Solar Forum with information on both battery packs and solar panels, which will help me going forward. So a lot of good reading to look forward to

 

[HåkanV]

Tidigare i tråden länkades till ett reportage från SVT om Johanna som levde off-grid i Delso.

Det finns ju även andra sätt som kanske är mer likt ett boende som vi flesta är vana vid.

OBS, videon innehåller även en del filosofiska tankar som kanske alla inte behöver hålla med om, men boendet ser trevligt ut.

Nu är det i södra England, så solcellproduktionen i December är drygt 2 gånger bättre än i Stockholmstrakten (och med varmare vintrar). Men upnorthandpersonal har ju visat att off-grid och modernt boende fungerar även i Vaasa i Finland.

 

[Mikael_L]

Ja det finns en hel skala över hur livet som off-grid kan vara, vilken nivå man kan tänka sig landa på.
Allt från Johannas sätt till ett liv som inte alls skiljer sig från att bo on-grid.
I ena vågskålen finns kostnaden, i andra vågskålen mängden eget jobb och vad man kan uppoffra.

Det blir ju upp till var och en hur man väljer.
Men en lågt hängande frukt är att man byter ut husets uppvärmning och varmvatten till att det drivs av vedeldning, eller ev pellets.
Det kan ju vara en rätt bra avvägning mellan bekvämlighet och vad man kan tänka sig lägga tid på.

Många (men lååångt ifrån alla eller de flesta) kan nog tänka sig ännu mer spartansk, att de måste hushålla rejält med elen under vintern, och kanske hela året ha ett begränsat uttag av toppeffekt, dvs inte kunna starta flera effektkrävande apparater samtidigt.
Särskilt lämplig nivå för frekvent använda sommarstugor, men som ändå inte är permanentboende, och kanske är oanvända eller mycket litet använda under de mörkaste kallaste månaderna.

 

[Mikael_L]

Batterier är dubbelt så dyra i Sverige som i Tyskland:
https://www.elinstallatoren.se/2026...lcellsbatteri-i-sverige-jamfort-med-tyskland/

 

[pmd]

Det beror kanske på subventionerna för grön teknik …

 

[daVinci]

Batterier är dubbelt så dyra i Sverige som i Tyskland:
[länk]

Finns utrymme för en entrepenör att parallellimportera och sälja för halva priset och ta hela marknaden.

Det beror kanske på subventionerna för grön teknik …

Hur hindrar de en entrepenör att göra enligt ovan?