Scammed on gutter job?

[malarmaster]

I don't know where you live, but I have neither heard of nor seen a similar sheet metal job, and I have been in the industry. Irish people are mostly known for bad paving jobs…

In the 80s and 90s, it was common in Skåne, Blekinge, and parts of Småland. Don't know how it looked in the rest of Sweden. The Stockholm area should have been a paradise for these scammers. Lots of reports, newspaper articles, so it calmed down when the public started to catch on. I'm a master painter myself and have been active in the construction industry, so I've seen some "jobs". Gutter jobs are easy to take on and something ordinary homeowners think is complicated. Easy for scammers to go around and offer help. Worse is when they take on roof repairs, painting jobs, construction work, or anything else that requires skills and either fail or scam advance payments and then disappear. Unfortunately, there seems to be a new wave coming, this time with Eastern Europeans as craftsmen. The best thing if you need help with something is to get quotes from local companies to see the price range and get recommendations. The worst is to hire someone from the street whom nobody knows where they come from. In my neighborhood, some Swedish guys came a few years ago and knocked on doors. They wanted chimney jobs and naturally targeted the houses with shabby chimneys above the ridge. They offered to clad the chimneys with sheet metal. Some agreed, but unfortunately, the guys' sheet metal skills were terrible, and the results were unsightly. However, they charged quite a bit. Now, several years later, it can only be noted that it had to be redone by real roofers. Some homeowners soon suffered roof leaks, and some chimneys lost the metal cladding in an autumn storm.

 

[Toggmax]

If the installer wants 1200 SEK/m, he must prove that such an agreement is in place. Additionally, the downpipes are incorrectly installed. The joint should not be against the wall.

 

[Micke501]

Hire an inspector. Let the "contractors" fix any issues before you pay the invoice.

 

[adrii]

If they actually agreed on 1200/m, then that price applies even if it's unreasonable. But then it's up to the craftsman to show some form of proof of the agreement. But given how this job looks, the craftsman is probably liable for damages instead. Don't pay a penny!

But that also assumes it's done professionally, right? A contract goes both ways, after all.

 

[Mats-S]

If the installer wants 1200 SEK/month, he must prove that this is agreed. The downspouts are also incorrectly installed. The joint should not be against the wall.

Well... the thing about the joint has been discussed quite a bit here. Today's downspouts are of such good quality that it shouldn't be a problem to have the joint against the wall; aesthetically, it's way more attractive. On my house, the joint has been against the wall for 40 years without any issues

But the placement of the joint is probably the least of the problems here. As has already been pointed out, it looks awful. Tear it down, redo it, and do it right.
Since the job isn't done professionally, TS shouldn't pay a dime until all mistakes are corrected.

 

[Mortsken]

Why would they come if they knew that a more knowledgeable and less gullible person would be present? They'll probably come back another day when you're not there. I would have set up a surveillance camera asap. So it's really visible too. Maybe they'll hesitate to come in and be threatening. I don't know anything about stuprör or hängrännor, but anyone with normal intelligence understands that this is not done correctly.

 

[Plåtsax]

Well .... the seam has been discussed quite a lot here. Today's downpipes are of such good quality that it shouldn't be a problem to turn the seam towards the wall; aesthetically, it looks much nicer. On my house, the seam has been against the wall for 40 years without any problems at all


But the placement of the seam is probably the least of the issues here; as already pointed out, it looks terrible, tear it down, redo it, do it right.
Since the job is not done professionally, TS shouldn't pay a cent until all errors are corrected.

Roofers still claim that the seam on a downpipe should be turned outward on all types of façades that could be damaged by a leak.
I am also skeptical about "today's downpipes are of such good quality."
Not that they are of poor quality, but the pipes open up due to frost cracking when water runs down the inner edge of the pipe, freezing in between.
If the pipes on your house have lasted 40 years, I would guess it's due to the circumstances around your specific house and nothing else.

I agree that it looks much nicer with the seam inward, but I wouldn't recommend it without at least mentioning a possible consequence of it.

Regards, Roofer who has dismantled and replaced frost-cracked pipes of all materials and vintages.

And to TS, the work is junk through and through, don't pay a penny. Everything from skimping and reusing existing brackets and pipe clamps (with drywall screws *sigh*) to the dreadful cuttings and lack of leaf guards for the underground pipes. If it's aluminum, at least it won't rust

 

[TRJBerg]

If everyone ignores reporting, the wonderful government in the spring can continue to claim that fewer and fewer crimes are being committed. Something that we all know is not true, but more and more choose not to report because nothing happens.

I'm wondering a bit about police reports. Sure, it's said that you should report it so it gets included in the statistics. But I've also read that these cases (when a police report is immediately dismissed) don't end up in any comprehensible statistics. Either not at all or you can't see what the suspected crime was that was dismissed. Does anyone have data on how this works in practice?

 

[PNF]

Bring in an inspector. Let the "contractors" fix any defects before you pay the invoice.

no need for an inspector. Inspection with an inspector is also a contractual construction included in the AB contracts, right?

no inspection agreed upon here. No contract at all…

 

[Unikt namn]

In practice, there is a large amount of statistics and the author of the article (which reaches you) selects data points that fit the article's message.

For example, it might be theoretically true that crime is both increasing and decreasing depending on which crimes or statistics one refers to. It might increase in absolute terms, but decrease when looking at reports per capita.

I can only interpret the information text in one way, that everything is counted:
https://bra.se/statistik/kriminalstatistik.html

The statistics on reported crimes include all incidents that have been reported and recorded as crimes by the Police Authority, the Prosecutor's Office, the Customs Service, and the Economic Crime Authority. The reported crimes also include incidents which, after investigation, turn out to be something other than crimes.

 

[Marielisan]

No point in reporting to the police. It will be dropped immediately, no police officer investigates a poorly installed gutter.

Dispute the invoice, pay nothing. Take down the rubbish and return it.

Might be good to have a police report made anyway. It might not be investigated, but it goes into crime statistics and gets noticed if more people report.

 

[Lars E P]

Hello forum!!

Received a phone call from a relative today, when they were about to finalize the price for new gutters. They were asking for 12,000 SEK for about 6m of gutters and 1 downpipe with connection. No new hooks for the gutter or straps for the downpipe, the old ones were reused.

I talked to the guy who did the work over the phone, and he claims they agreed on 1200 SEK per meter, and when questioning the high price, I was told that the material is of the highest quality (aluminum). I have traced the material to Trifa, a Hungarian brand, and it appears to be coated aluminum. I will get equivalent material prices from my frequently used supplier tomorrow for comparison, but I find it very hard to see that this job would be worth 1200 SEK per meter. Especially since I have serious doubts about the quality.

Those who know, should it look like this?

[image]
Image 1 downpipe connection to ground pipe. Is there a lack of transition and leaf separator?

[image]

image 2 ends just bent up. Does not connect to the fascia board, leaving about a 3 cm gap.

[image]

image 3 appears to be sloppily cut pipe with sharp splinters sticking out, uneven. In addition, it is dented and attached to the old mismatched strap with drywall screw (?). Isn't the downpipe also of the wrong dimension, see gutter and ground pipe.


I don't know if I'm completely off track, but this feels all wrong both in price and quality?

I will meet them tomorrow for further discussion... just wanted any input you might have...

It seems like a real amateur job and not done by real craftsmen.

 

[cpalm]

It seems to be a real amateur job and not executed by real craftsmen.

This is guaranteed to be about so-called Irish asphalt layers who are highly professional in their "craft," which, however, is fraud, not sheet metal work. The reason they've done any job at all is that it is part of the setup itself.

 

[mattias1343]

It seems to be a real amateur job and not done by real craftsmen.

It seems to be a real amateur job and not done by real craftsmen.

Even I can do it better. I'm not saying my work is correct according to any industry standards, but it works and looks decent with my skills.

 

[Nissens]

This is definitely about so-called Irish asphalt layers who are highly professional in their "craft," which, however, is fraud, not metalwork. The reason they've done any job at all is because it's part of the setup itself.

Hardly guaranteed, it could also be the property owner who has put something together...