You write "12 double sockets (3 of which were wall mounted)". Those that are not wall mounted, how are they mounted?
It is an old cabin, which had existing supply, but it was in the house. Fortum moved the supply outside. They invoiced me separately for this work.
The electrician gave me an initial estimate for putting in a new internal fuse/breaker box, running a cable between it and Fortums supply and installing two new sockets. Then he said it needed completely rewired because there was no earth wiring. Then it became a different job. There is no argument about the cost per hour, just the number of hours and the quantities of cable, and other components. He seems to have charged me for things I have not received and full rolls of cable, etc but he took away all spares.
By wall mounted, I mean everything is external to the wall i.e. the back box and faceplate. Those not wall mounted have one of those green circular boxes DOSA buried in the wall with only the faceplate being external.
Hope this answers your questions.
On a separate note, the estimate of 700 sek per sqm to use in calculations for electrical work is that with or without moms. Does this figure include cable, sockets, switches, etc. This figure seems to be inline with what others in the village paid; neighbours paid 540 sek in 2006 and another neighbour paid 560 sek in 2007. There cabins are approx same size and they had the same work done more or less.
The electrician gave me an initial estimate for putting in a new internal fuse/breaker box, running a cable between it and Fortums supply and installing two new sockets. Then he said it needed completely rewired because there was no earth wiring. Then it became a different job. There is no argument about the cost per hour, just the number of hours and the quantities of cable, and other components. He seems to have charged me for things I have not received and full rolls of cable, etc but he took away all spares.
By wall mounted, I mean everything is external to the wall i.e. the back box and faceplate. Those not wall mounted have one of those green circular boxes DOSA buried in the wall with only the faceplate being external.
Hope this answers your questions.
On a separate note, the estimate of 700 sek per sqm to use in calculations for electrical work is that with or without moms. Does this figure include cable, sockets, switches, etc. This figure seems to be inline with what others in the village paid; neighbours paid 540 sek in 2006 and another neighbour paid 560 sek in 2007. There cabins are approx same size and they had the same work done more or less.
Did the elektrician have to open the walls to get the internal pipes etc. in place or were all walls already open?
I think the estimate of 700 includes "normal" material. But it is often mentioned in case of a new complete house. Those are normally 100 - 250 sqm. So for such a small house as yours the figure would have to be adjusted upwards a bit. It takes realtively more time to install in small houses. But it still seems that you have been overcharged.
I have seen someone mention a rough estimate of 1 to 1,5 hours per unit (breakers socket etc) including the pipes and wires to the unit. It seems that you have 25 units. Which would give an estimate of 25 - 40 hours. The of course the time for central and the outdoor connection. Very roughly 10 - 20 hours.
What none of us reading here can know is if there were som specific difficulties involved.
An example of a diffculty can be if you install a light fitting in the roof, and have to draw the wire or pipes on the attic where there might be almost zero height to work in. Or you make a concealed installation in a non-open wall, you push a pipe in through one hole and try to get it out through another hole 2 meters away.
I think the estimate of 700 includes "normal" material. But it is often mentioned in case of a new complete house. Those are normally 100 - 250 sqm. So for such a small house as yours the figure would have to be adjusted upwards a bit. It takes realtively more time to install in small houses. But it still seems that you have been overcharged.
I have seen someone mention a rough estimate of 1 to 1,5 hours per unit (breakers socket etc) including the pipes and wires to the unit. It seems that you have 25 units. Which would give an estimate of 25 - 40 hours. The of course the time for central and the outdoor connection. Very roughly 10 - 20 hours.
What none of us reading here can know is if there were som specific difficulties involved.
An example of a diffculty can be if you install a light fitting in the roof, and have to draw the wire or pipes on the attic where there might be almost zero height to work in. Or you make a concealed installation in a non-open wall, you push a pipe in through one hole and try to get it out through another hole 2 meters away.
Walls were already open. The cottage has no attic or basement all cables were drawn though one wall at the most since fusebox is central and the cottage is mainly open plan. So I can't see were the difficulties would lie. Even using 1,000 sek as a price guide it seems I have been overcharged..is it because I am a female, with no brains, or a foreigner I wonder.
Is it normal for electricians in Sweden to charge you for what cable,etc they used or order a cable drum, etc and take away what is not used but charge you for what they ordered from the wholesaler. The electricain seems to have done the later with this job but my neighbours electrician (different company) charged them for what they used.
Also do you wire up sockets, etc into a ring main or indivdually. I suspect it is a ring main as i the UK, because what I saw when visiting was a single pieceof flexible tube going around the wall of the living room. If I am correct I fail to understand why they would need and use 200m of flexible hosing/ducting.
Basically I let the electricians come and go as they please because I thought I could trust them and I was flexible with there other jobs because this is a holiday cottage only.
Also do you wire up sockets, etc into a ring main or indivdually. I suspect it is a ring main as i the UK, because what I saw when visiting was a single pieceof flexible tube going around the wall of the living room. If I am correct I fail to understand why they would need and use 200m of flexible hosing/ducting.
Basically I let the electricians come and go as they please because I thought I could trust them and I was flexible with there other jobs because this is a holiday cottage only.
No, the "ring circuit" of the UK is normally only found in the uk. What you have are radiating circuits, that don't "connect back" to the breaker/fuse box. But, don't worry, Swedish standards include correctly dimensioned wiring to compensate for the extra current in each cable!
200m of "VP-rör"?! That is a lot! I have recently purchased 40m for roughly 30 sqm... but it depends, of course, on the number of switches, lighting fixtures and receptacles.
If I were in your situation, I'd contact other electrical firms in your town, and get several estimates... and the confront your electrician if anything seems out of order.
200m of "VP-rör"?! That is a lot! I have recently purchased 40m for roughly 30 sqm... but it depends, of course, on the number of switches, lighting fixtures and receptacles.
If I were in your situation, I'd contact other electrical firms in your town, and get several estimates... and the confront your electrician if anything seems out of order.
It is not uncommon (but wrong) that they carge you for a whole roll and take away the leftover (and sell it again to another customer). Depending on what kind of cable it is it can be correct that they charge for full roll. If it is something that they cannot reasonably expect to sell to someone else.
Mostly the try to wire in a ring which is right.
But we have a big difference in Sweden compared to UK. In UK you have bigger fuses in the fuse box, distribute the electricity around the house in thicker cables (due to the bigger fuse). And then you have local fuses in all connectors so that a single lamp or whatever is connected cannot get a larger current than it is designed for. In this way you can build a bigger ring without overloading the fuse in the fuse box.
Since we don't have the local fuse in connectors here, the distribution from the fuse box has to fit the max current an equipment can take.
Mostly the try to wire in a ring which is right.
But we have a big difference in Sweden compared to UK. In UK you have bigger fuses in the fuse box, distribute the electricity around the house in thicker cables (due to the bigger fuse). And then you have local fuses in all connectors so that a single lamp or whatever is connected cannot get a larger current than it is designed for. In this way you can build a bigger ring without overloading the fuse in the fuse box.
Since we don't have the local fuse in connectors here, the distribution from the fuse box has to fit the max current an equipment can take.
But I do believe the term "ring circuit" is restricted to the UK way of wiring "double parallel" circuits in which you "connect back" to the fuse box: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_cuircuit Normally, Swedish and continental European electrician only install radiating parallel circuits. No big deal, though! And of absolutely no importance to your questions (sorry!).
(The fuse in the connectors is always an exotic and interesting item when Swedes visit the UK.)
).(The fuse in the connectors is always an exotic and interesting item when Swedes visit the UK.)
Redigerat:
Självbyggare
· Stockholm
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As a comparison i have just built a 45 sqm cottage in Dalarna and my electrican took 14000 SEK for the job + some material.
BUT then i had, with his permission, already prepared most of the cabling (flexirör med färdiga kablar) and had purchased the material (almost all of it anyway - it turned out that he had charged about 7000 SEK for material that was missing but i think I got a fair price anyway - so ... )
My cost for material from a reltive working with that (i.e. i got a good price) was about 8000 SEK
My connection charge was 14 000 SEK, all that included was basically that the electrical company turned on "the switch"...
So my electrical total was about 36 000 SEK - and then i did do a lot myself.
If I had done nothing it would probably have costed med about twice, ie. around 60-65000 SEK, especially since the material charged by the electrican was about 2-4 times as expensive as the material i could buy through my contact...
If you want more details, my budget and follow-up are on my blog:
http://klasoida.blogspot.com/2008/05/budget-status-just-nu.html
EDIT: In my cottage it took more than 100m of flexicable with 3x1.5mm wiring. Not quite 200m though...
/K
BUT then i had, with his permission, already prepared most of the cabling (flexirör med färdiga kablar) and had purchased the material (almost all of it anyway - it turned out that he had charged about 7000 SEK for material that was missing but i think I got a fair price anyway - so ... )
My cost for material from a reltive working with that (i.e. i got a good price) was about 8000 SEK
My connection charge was 14 000 SEK, all that included was basically that the electrical company turned on "the switch"...
So my electrical total was about 36 000 SEK - and then i did do a lot myself.
If I had done nothing it would probably have costed med about twice, ie. around 60-65000 SEK, especially since the material charged by the electrican was about 2-4 times as expensive as the material i could buy through my contact...
If you want more details, my budget and follow-up are on my blog:
http://klasoida.blogspot.com/2008/05/budget-status-just-nu.html
EDIT: In my cottage it took more than 100m of flexicable with 3x1.5mm wiring. Not quite 200m though...
/K
Redigerat:
a cottage i done in 2006 costed 82000:- included moms. it was 70 sqm, one bedroom,kitchen/livingroom, bathroom. many sockets, dimmers for lightning, downlights under roof outside. around 400meter vp-rör/flexhose. and an overvoltageprotection (överspänningsskydd).the cottage had ordinary "machines", same as in a normal house.
Pellefant's numbers don't deviate much from what you were charged. I'm sorry I can't help you more vz the cost, but I've usually done my wiring with my father and his co-worker (both electricians).
One last advice: most Swedish contractors and electricians don't mind discussing the bill; in most cases it's almost like a Greek shop: you're supposed to question the cost, and even haggle a bit...
Good luck!
One last advice: most Swedish contractors and electricians don't mind discussing the bill; in most cases it's almost like a Greek shop: you're supposed to question the cost, and even haggle a bit...
Good luck!
Redigerat:
Really? I did not suggest that you succeed when you haggle. Most of the handymen and electricians I know (and believe me, I come from a family with lots of them) enjoy the discussion. They're proud businessmen - unfortunately no women - that do a great job and don't feel threatened when somebody questions the bill.
I get the feeling you misunderstood my words as I in most instances have nothing but the highest regard for electricians especially. What I don't like, however, are for example banks like SEB who totally ignore their customers!
elmont: No hard feelings?
I get the feeling you misunderstood my words as I in most instances have nothing but the highest regard for electricians especially. What I don't like, however, are for example banks like SEB who totally ignore their customers!
elmont: No hard feelings?
