Sheet Metal Work - Should It Look Like This?

[Rickard.]

I wouldn't be able to fulfill this because I have a dormer that prevents the ladder from going straight up to the chimney.
How do you solve this if the chimney sweep is not allowed to move sideways on the roof?
Or do you need to build a platform with railings then?

That's incorrect. Of course, you can use approved catwalks if necessary. I'm not sure exactly when railings are needed, but I believe it has to do with the height, among other things.

You can always try without and just install them if there's any pushback.

 

[plåtrickard]

https://www.borga.se/byggtillbehor/...taksakerhet-pa-borga/taksakerhet-regler-tips/

 

[Joakim88]

Time for an update again. Long post..
The sheet metal worker finished last Friday. Overall satisfied with the result. The plaster edge on the chimney flashing was way too wide/deep (almost 3cm, who applies plaster that thick?) and the black "triangle" at the junction between the gable roof and flat roof leaves something to be desired. It will be covered by wood panel later anyway.. But honestly, I can't be bothered to go through this again, I've already had to tell them how it should look a few times and they've fixed it but made new mistakes..

When the guy finished, I happened to be home, was on duty leave that day, so I went out and talked with him a bit. Nice guy. Turns out this was the first time he's doing a plaster edge and the first time he's making a ventilation hood entirely on his own. "Oh, new to the trade?" I wonder. No, it turns out he's an apprentice. (?)
I have absolutely no problem with an apprentice working here. On the contrary, it's great that the guy is learning. But shouldn't an apprentice have supervision and someone teaching him things? All parts are made on-site, so no one could help him in a workshop or similar either. Is an apprentice allowed to be out on a job completely on their own, from start to finish, without anyone seeing how he's doing?

I thought the company might come out and do a follow-up inspection. The whole week goes by and no one comes. What does arrive is the invoice, which came yesterday.
We have agreed on a fixed price, and it matches the invoice. If I calculate the labor cost based on the time the apprentice was here and add a bit for travel time, they've charged about 600kr/h. Normal for an experienced craftsman, I think, but should you really pay full price for an apprentice...without supervision as well?
I call the company (a small company so it's the owner I'm in contact with). The guy immediately goes on the defense, impossible to discuss with. No follow-up inspection is needed as he completely trusts the guy. "The price is agreed, and you got what you wanted." (It was NEVER mentioned that an apprentice would do the job or even be involved). I try to give him time to say what he wants and then say my part, but he just calls me various insults, ends with "then go ahead and get an inspector, good luck with that" and hangs up. Now he doesn't answer when I call.

What do you do? What rights do you have? Are there rules on how apprentices should be billed or just practice to charge a lower hourly rate?
Honestly, we can't afford a bunch of inspectors or possible legal costs. This roof replacement and the associated metalwork came as an unpleasant surprise and have weighed heavily on our budget.

 

[Jönas]

The sheet metal apprentice will probably become a good sheet metal worker one day!

You have to disregard the discount in this case as it is a fixed price contract, and therefore they can take extra time if needed, it's only up to your contractor to send the staff they find suitable. You should focus on ensuring the work is done to the right quality.

 

[Uffe A]

That sheet metal worker apprentice will probably become a good sheet metal worker someday!

You should disregard the discount in this case as it is a fixed-price contract, and therefore, they can take extra time as needed, only up to your contractor to send the personnel they find appropriate. You should focus on the right work being done to the correct quality.

I agree completely.
If it had been on an ongoing basis, I wouldn't have liked the company to charge full hourly rate for the apprentice.
Would you have been happier if the company had sent out an experienced sheet metal worker who did the job in half the time?
Then it would have cost 1200 SEK per hour.
Now you've received a 50% discount on the hourly rate

 

[Joakim88]

That sheet metal apprentice will probably become a good sheet metal worker one day!

You have to ignore the discount in this case as it is a fixed price agreement, and therefore they can take extra time, it is only up to your contractor to send the personnel they find suitable. You should focus on ensuring the right work is done to the right quality.

The price was just a small part of it all. I think the price we got is acceptable for the final result. Otherwise, we wouldn't have accepted the quote. I'm mostly wondering if it's allowed to be done this way and if they aren't obliged to inform when an unqualified craftsman is performing the work. Why should the construction industry be different from other industries where students/apprentices learn on the job? I myself am a former truck mechanic. There, it was always information to the customer and a follow-up control by the supervisor/mentor, hairdressers make it incredibly clear when it is students. Now I work in healthcare, and it’s incredibly clear and obligatory to inform about what "level" you've reached in the profession (student, AT, junior doctor, etc., etc.). As someone not knowledgeable in the field, you hire a company not just to get a job done, but also for a certain security that it's done RIGHT. Then I, and surely many others, expect that at least a qualified person will show up to check the work. How would you feel if a high school student changed the brakes on your car, the work wasn't checked, and when you drive away, you hear "that was the first time I did something like that." Would you feel safe in the car? The job is probably done well, or at least okay. But I think there's something missing on the company's part.

 

[zodiaken]

The price was just a small part of it all. I think the price we've received is acceptable for the final result. Otherwise, we wouldn't have accepted the quote. I'm mostly wondering if it's allowed to proceed in that way and if one isn't obliged to inform when it's not a fully trained craftsman performing the work. Why should the construction industry be different from other sectors where students/apprentices learn on the job? I myself am a truck mechanic from before. There was always information to the customer and a follow-up check by the supervisor/mentor, for hairdressers, it’s incredibly clear when it’s students. Now I work in healthcare and it's incredibly clear and an obligation to inform about what "level" you have reached in the profession (student, AT, junior doctor, etc. etc.). As someone not knowledgeable in the field, you hire a company not just to get a job done, but also for a certain assurance that it's done RIGHT. Then I, and surely many others, would expect at least a fully trained person to show up and check the work. How would you feel if a high school student changed the brakes on your car, the work is not checked, and when you drive away you hear "it was the first time I did something like that." Would you feel safe in the car? The job is probably good or at least okay, done. But I think there's something lacking on the company's part.

Completely agree, unfortunately my experience is also that a larger portion of craftsmen haven't learned what service and follow-up are. It wouldn't have required much from the company's side to come and check that everything looks good - when they don't do that, it makes you even more doubtful if the job is completed correctly according to all the rules. Given how the person you spoke to behaved, I probably would have argued even more and paid a reasonable (smaller) amount for the work that wasn't done by someone with professional certification. I wouldn't have paid full price if I bought a service from someone who's not fully trained and furthermore said they hadn't done the task before.

 

[karlmb]

Then the possible water will still run under the tiles. It should lie over the ridge board and onto the top of the tiles according to what I understand anyway.

Sorry, don't know what I was thinking there!

 

[Huddingebo]

I still think it turned out pretty well in the end. Slightly wide lapel collars but otherwise good!
I would have been satisfied. And I'm picky.