Reasonable quote for installing an interior wall?

[Tyresö]

In everyday speech, "ackord" and "beting" are often equated, but in principle, you are right.

If you're interested in Swedish industrial history, I recommend the book "Människor i Scania under 100 år (1991)" by Professor Eric Giertz, who today is the vice-rector at KTH in Stockholm. The book is not only a story about Scania's history but also a detailed description of the industry's development as well as the evolution of labor and employer organizations. The book also covers the background and development of time measurement (MTM=Method Time Measurement), where you can learn everything you need to know about "ackord" and "beting." A good book in front of the fireplace on dark autumn evenings.

I must, despite all the blows you've taken, give you credit because you have answers for everything and you really do a deep dive investigation to get your message across!

 

[Tyresö]

I also want to emphasize that with your determination to never give up, despite setbacks, and your humility in taking the time to delve into nonsense just to please, you are a potential candidate for pumping concrete!

All you other concrete pump operators who read this thread and have experienced a total breakdown with separated concrete throughout the mast understand what I mean by Thomas59's determination and that he stands by his word and is also humble!

You have a job with me right away! But it’s only in my imagination since this forum is not designed for business advertising or recruitment, which is the right approach to create a serious construction forum. The most important thing for me is that it's still possible and that there are "guys" who have the "old" mentality needed for me to further expand my company.

 

[Locke]

I join the curious group who want to know what Tomas59 is working on.

Regarding the original question, the price doesn't sound unreasonable but perhaps at a metropolitan level. Where in the country will the work be performed?

I would probably have preferred a lightweight wall - one should probably also include insulation in the calculation. The material is probably quite reasonable in that case.

 

[Krille4]

I see many craftsmen in this thread

I don't understand why you are so critical of Thomas59? His position is obvious, that is, with running billing, you should pay for the time the craftsman works and not pay for time when the craftsman is not working. Should he really need to explain his work to justify such an obvious point?

All the craftsmen I hire work that way. Most recently, when the electrician was here, it took 3 hours. Naturally, I pay for travel expenses, materials, and the 3 hours. If it had taken 5 hours, I would have paid for that too since I trust him. However, I would never pay for 8 hours just with the justification that he had nothing to do for the rest of the day or that he had a piece-rate system that required it...

However, I understand the dilemma of billing full days, and that’s why I ask the craftsman well in advance which week he can come, and then I give him the freedom to do the job anytime during that week when it suits him with other jobs.

/Krille

 

[andersmc]

It has now been almost a year since TS asked the question, so we can assume that he has either bitten the bullet and paid the overprice for his wall or shelved the project.

But to contribute some information, I (as a self-employed person, but not a carpenter) helped a relative a while ago to erect an interior wall similar to what TS is asking about. Loading the car with tools and attaching the trailer, driving to the "customer" (thirty kilometers) while stopping by Bygmax to pick up materials, erecting the wall, cleaning up, packing everything up, and driving home again took me about one day. A carpenter would presumably do it faster.

The material for TS' wall costs 1500-1600 kronor at Byggmax.

Based on this, one might guess that the person who provided the quotation is calculating about 1000 SEK/hour and a 100% markup on the material. Whether this is reasonable or not is for everyone to judge, but it was a quote, so it is intended to be assessed.

Regarding the discussion about having to "fill up" to make complete days: if you have a dream, a dream of clocking in at seven every morning and clocking out at four every afternoon, and safely knowing that you get paid for every minute in between, then you should look for employment, not start your own business. When working as a self-employed person, some days are shorter than others. Then you celebrate having that time off. Some days are longer than others. Then you celebrate making money while others are sitting in front of the TV.

 

[Thomas Lundquist]

Now it was almost a year ago since TS asked the question, so we can assume that he either bit the bullet and paid the overprice for his wall or shelved the project.

But to contribute some information, I (as a self-employed, but not a carpenter) helped a relative a while ago to erect an interior wall like the one TS is asking about. Loading the car with tools and attaching a trailer, driving to the "customer" (thirty kilometers) and then stopping by Bygmax to pick up materials, installing the wall, cleaning up, packing up, and driving home again took me about a day. A carpenter probably does it faster.

The material for TS's wall costs about 1500-1600 kronor at Byggmax.

So based on this, one can guess that the person who submitted the quote is calculating about 1000 kr/h and a 100% markup on the materials. Whether this is reasonable or not is up to each individual to assess, but it was a quote, so it is meant to be evaluated.

Regarding the discussion that one must "fill up" to make whole days: if you have a dream, a dream to clock in at seven every morning and clock out at four every afternoon, and to safely know that you are paid for every minute in between, then you should seek employment, not start your own business. If you're self-employed, some days will be shorter than others. You can then enjoy the free time. Some days will be longer than others. Then you can be happy that you are making money while others are sitting in front of the TV.

Now you very likely don't know what was supposed to be attached to what and with what when it comes to TS's wall.
So when you claim to know what the material would cost for TS's wall with a margin of 100 kronor, it's not credible.

Now this was a quote, and if I myself, as someone over 40, were to receive such a quote request, I would also ensure that the entire day is covered in the quote, unless it was an old customer or I had some other reason to accept a non-full day.
It's the newbies, the new generation, who take on this kind of job and can manage to run around like madmen as I did at the beginning. That's how it is.

I don't know what you do as a self-employed person, but the few days that are shorter on my end, I don't choose this type of model.

 

[andersmc]

Now, you likely don't know what was supposed to be attached to what and with what regarding TS's wall.
So when you claim to know what the material would cost for TS's wall with a margin of 100 kronor, it's not credible.

Now, this was a quotation request, and if, as someone over 40, I were to receive such a request, I would also make sure to cover the entire day in the quote, unless it was an old customer or if I would otherwise accept a non-full day.
It's the young ones, the new generation, that take this type of job and manage to rush around like madmen as I did in the beginning. That's how it is.

Now, I don't know what you do as an entrepreneur, but those few short days for my part, I don't choose with this type of model.

Now, it's hardly rocket science to figure out what the material for a wall costs. And honestly, I haven't calculated, it's just an experience-based guess. But it would have been much nicer if you, as the professional I assume you are, instead of disparaging my cost suggestion, had shown how you made the calculation. Probably much more educational for the forum's members, as well.

But in reality, it's unimportant what the material costs at Byggmax. Professionals don't shop there, do they? They shop at real building supply stores, where they have discounts, making it even cheaper than Byggmax.

If you cover the whole day in the quote, that's not entirely wrong. It took me, as an amateur, a day to erect a similar wall, so a professional should manage it in about the same time. But the person who provided the quotation seemed to have covered for TWO days, that's what was noteworthy.

But this thing about "covering up"; if you estimate a job to take 7.5 hours, it feels entirely okay to count it as a whole day. But if it's estimated to 5 hours? Do you round it up to 8 then? If it takes 3 hours? Where is the line drawn?

 

[Thomas Lundquist]

Now it's hardly rocket science to figure out what the material for a wall costs. And honestly, I haven't calculated; it's just an experience-based guess. But it would have been much nicer if you, as the professional I assume you are, instead of criticizing my cost estimate, had shown how you did the calculation. Probably much more educational for the forum's members, too.

But it's actually irrelevant what the material costs at Byggmax. Do professionals shop there? They shop at real building supply stores, where they get discounts, so it's even cheaper than Byggmax.

If you cover the entire day in the quote, it's not entirely wrong. It took me, as an amateur, a day to erect a similar wall, so a professional should be able to do it in about the same time. But the person who made the quote has rather covered for TWO days, which was noteworthy.

But this thing about "covering"; if you expect a job to take 7.5 hours, it feels okay to count it as a full day. But if it's estimated at 5 hours? Do you round up to 8 then as well? If it takes 3 hours? Where is the line?

No, it's not rocket science, but apparently, it's closer to being a medium.
The question is which is more difficult.

When I know the wall's thickness, material for studs, flooring material and if there's underfloor heating, ceiling material, wall material where studs will be attached, etc., then I can calculate the material price.
This means I need a basis for the quote; I can't guess the price. If I were to do so, the aim would naturally be upwards.

I rarely/never shop at Byggmax; I see quality and service as the most important for my purchases.
How I distribute my discount is up to me, but usually, I allocate the largest part of the benefit to the customer.
In construction, there's not much gold to be had when it comes to materials; you may have misunderstood that.
Plumbing and to some extent electrical are probably the groups you're referring to when you paint your discount dreams.

The tradesperson who issued the quote might have fudged a bit and included travel, parking, and waste management in the time.
We don't know what the wall will be attached to or if materials need to be carried up several floors, so claiming it's overpriced without a basis is a bit unprofessional.

 

[Thomas59]

I also want to emphasize that with your persistence to never give up, despite setbacks, and that despite the setbacks, you are still humble and take the time to delve into nonsense, just to please. I know it's impossible to recruit you through this forum, but with the mentality you have, you're made for pumping concrete!

All of you other concrete pump operators, reading this thread and have experienced total failure with separated concrete throughout the boom, understand what I mean with Thomas59's determination and that he stands for his beliefs and is also humble!

You have a job with me directly! But it's only in my imagination since this forum is not designed for company advertising or staff recruitment, which is the right approach to creating a serious construction forum. The most important thing for me is that it is still possible and that there are "guys" who have the "old" mentality needed for me to further expand my company.

Blast from the past! Someone just liked one of my old posts in the thread (which has been inactive for 11 years), so I started reading to see what the thread was about and saw your comment. I could very well have accepted your offer. Not afraid of hard physical work. In fact, I like it, so thanks for the comment.

To the rest of you I argued against (or with, it was a bit unclear as your examples and arguments contradicted each other) and who wondered what I worked with, I can now reveal that I worked as an international management consultant with a daily rate that probably far exceeded what you as craftsmen (?) earn per month. A joker, as my father-in-law put it when we first met. He himself was the owner/CEO of a precision engineering workshop, i.e., a “real” job according to him.

Maybe he was right? Now I'm engaged in something completely different. A craftsman job, one might say. Fun and developing.