Reasonable quote for installing an interior wall?

[ladspin]

Received the following quote to construct an interior wall (without a door) approximately 3.5 m in length and 2.5 m in height.

Building materials: chipboard, gypsum boards, studs, screws, insulation, etc., approx. 3,500 SEK
Labor cost: 7,500 SEK
Travel cost: 0 SEK
Waste handling: 0 SEK

Total 11,000 SEK
Preliminary ROT deduction 3,750 SEK

Total labor cost incl. VAT after preliminary ROT deduction 7,250 SEK.

Does this seem reasonable?

 

[anaitis]

Seems to mean about 17-20 working hours.
Might sound a bit excessive, but that probably includes the time to buy materials as well.
Try to see if it gets cheaper if you buy the materials yourself?

 

[magnu]

Hi,

Hopefully, it has been plastered and painted as well.

Seriously from byggmax
Studs 4 x 2.50 (45x70) = 10m = 100kr
Plate and hammer beams 7m = 70kr
Wood 170 kr

Gypsum boards two sides, three pieces per side = 6 pcs x 80 kr = 500kr

1 box of drywall screws 90 kr.

1 box of wood screws 5x100mm 65 kr

Insulation, stone wool from Beijer, 2 packets 70mm at 276 kr each = 552kr

Material just under 1500kr

Regarding the time,

For someone with some experience and interest:
It will probably take around 2 hours to get the plate and hammer beams in place, the studs will probably take another two hours.
Putting the boards up might be about half an hour per board.

We end up with around 7 hours of work.

It might be wise to take it on a running account. But you should only do that if you know how the industry and the process work.

 

[viktorj]

Calculate an hourly rate of 360 plus VAT... that becomes 450. 7500/450= 16 hours. So, 2 guys for one day. Sounds completely reasonable. They have to shop for materials, might get stuck in traffic... Carry up materials & tools and then everything has to go down too. The lumber might be a bit high but not so much that I would have reacted. The spec from the above speaker is not entirely complete. You can't get far with 4 standing studs, at least double that. They surely use 90 sheets of drywall, and there's no chipboard in that spec.

In summary, I wouldn't have reacted too much to it...

 

[PappasHammare]

If I still lived in Stockholm, I would have started a business building "walls" and such. At least if you can send such invoices and maybe get them through. Or maybe help people on Saturdays..... :S

No....
If it's a straight simple wall, you'll need about the materials that Magnu mentioned. That is, much less than what you have been quoted. Sill and studs can be put up in about an hour. There are no angles. Then it doesn't take 30 minutes to put up a board. More like "3 minutes." With a screw gun, which builders should have, it goes quickly. There are only two boards that need to be cut with a simple cut.
The biggest labor time is setting up and down the tools, but as I said, you only need two machines. Miter saw/jigsaw and screw gun + a sharp knife.

Shameful to send such a quote.
Have you thought about doing it yourself?

 

[mr_bygg]

I won’t get into assessing the reasonableness of the quote. It might require quite a bit of extra time for buying materials, hauling equipment, traveling to the customer, sitting in traffic, packing up, writing an invoice, etc. But spontaneously, I agree with TheStills, it seems like a fairly simple do-it-yourself project. So either you think it’s too expensive and check with more craftsmen, or you skip TV night for a week and do it yourself. If you are careful and reasonably handy, it will turn out well and you can spend the money on something else instead.

 

[ladspin]

Thanks for the tips. Just received a new quote from another carpenter...1500 SEK lower than the above. So things are going in the right direction!

 

[Stringfellow Hawke]

If I still lived in Sthlm, I would have started a company building "walls" and such. At least if you can send such invoices and maybe get them approved. Or maybe help people on Saturdays..... :S

No....
If it's a straight simple wall, the material needed is approximately what magnu writes. That is much less than what you have been quoted. You can put up the base and studs in about an hour. There are no angles. Then it doesn't take 30 minutes to put up a panel. More towards the "3-minute" direction. With an automatic screwdriver, which builders should have, it goes quickly. Only two panels need to be cut with a simple slice.
The biggest work time is getting the tools in and out, but as mentioned, only two machines are needed. A miter/jigsaw and an automatic screwdriver + a sharp knife.

Shameful to send such a quote.
Haven't you thought about doing it yourself?

Yes, your company would have done great, for sure!

If you have a job that takes two men 5-6 hours, do you think you can send them to another customer in the last hour? Small businesses must account for whole days; with one lost hour in a day, the entire day's profit is gone.

 

[PappasHammare]

...two men 5-6 hours...

Two men putting up a wall... Sounds like municipal workers. One digs a hole and one watches....

And by the way, why should someone who has ordered a 6-hour job pay for 8 just because "the workday is 8"? If I order a 10-hour job, can I then pay for 8? Rounding off, right? No, isn't it that one day is 6 hours and the other 10? A little flexibility, quite simply.

 

[Thomas59]

Yes, your business would have gone really well, for sure!

If you have a job that takes two men 5-6 hours, do you think you can send them to another customer for the last hour? Small operators have to account for whole days, with a lost hour in a day, the entire day's profit is gone.

Uhmm! If the job takes 5-6 hours, the customer should obviously pay for 5-6 hours. If you then choose to sit on a park bench for the rest of the day and complain about losing 2-3 hours of billing, that's entirely your problem. You could just as well go to the office and write timesheets, invoices, order materials, etc.

Small operators who "have to account for whole days" should do something other than being contractors.

 

[Krille4]

For a skilled carpenter, I would think that the effective on-site work would be about 2-3 hours. Then there's travel time and time for purchasing, which is difficult to estimate. But if purchasing and traveling don't take too long, the job should total at most 8 hours for one person.

If you're just moderately handy and can transport the materials home relatively easily, I suggest doing the job yourself. The savings on materials and labor can allow you to buy a good screwdriver and an okay saw for

Additionally, you might feel a bit proud every time you see the wall

/K

 

[Alko]

The floor moldings should go up as well.
I'm not a craftsman, but I agree with the previous speaker, and I simply believe that for small jobs like these, one has to endure a "premium" because it's so small; there's a fixed cost in administration, startup, and "cleanup" time, etc. It's absolutely not possible to make an economy out of just taking these kinds of jobs unless you charge a bit extra.

I heard from an electrician that he gets calls from ladies who want their advent candle lights replaced. Should that also be charged as a 10-minute job for 45 kronor? That would be a lot of candle holders...

/A

 

[Stringfellow Hawke]

The Stills: Is it work environment-friendly to carry plasterboards by yourself from the car to the work site? How many flights of stairs without an elevator do you think are okay?

Thomas59: "You might as well go to the office and write time reports, invoices, order materials, etc.", That is exactly what customers also have to pay for.

It's a quote, a fixed price, the price should include labor cost, material cost, car cost, central administration, profit, and risk. What's so hard to understand? If you don't think the price is okay, just say no.

 

[Thomas59]

Thomas59: "You might as well go to the office and write time reports, invoices, order materials, etc.," That's exactly what the customers have to pay for (also).

That is NOT what you wrote.

You wrote:

If you have a job that takes two men 5-6 hours, do you think you can send them to another customer for the last hour? Small contractors must count on whole days, with one lost hour in a day, the entire day's profit is gone.

Which is something entirely different. However, I think you will find it difficult to explain to the customer that two men should spend 2-3 hours x2 (=4-6 hours) writing time reports, invoices, etc., during this time on a 5-6 hour job.

There are surely jobs that these two guys can do during the remaining time, but unfortunately, Stringfellow Hawke, there is no natural law that says a craftsman must always be able to invoice 8 hours per day, which seems to be what you believe and also a common misconception among craftsmen.

If you are of the opinion that craftsmen should always be able to invoice 8 hours a day, I would like you to explain in more detail what you base this claim on. It is true that you earn less if you can't invoice 8 hours a day, but that doesn't automatically mean you should always be able to invoice 8 hours.

In every other industry (where time is sold), there is something called occupancy rate, and it is rarely 100% (=8 hours per day). When pricing in other industries, the occupancy rate is a factor that is taken into account when setting the hourly rate.

Why should craftsmen be an exception?

 

[yens]

Explaining the concept of utilization rate in the trades industry seems to be something that isn't done. I completely agree with that. It's very often you hear expressions like: "but I have to write down eight hours, that's what the boss said," and I think there's a huge problem here. I would gladly pay 100 kronor more per hour in "small job surcharge" which would mean they don't have to bill for things they don't work on. In the long run, we who often want smaller jobs done would benefit from it. Nowadays, I mostly just get angry and do everything myself, even though I don't really have the skills or time, just because it's SO complicated and expensive to get small jobs done. The electrician is the exception, because you have to buy small jobs from them...