Reasonable quote for installing an interior wall?

[Thomas59]

Yes, but Good Lord! It HURTS to work on piece rates. With your posts, I know that you've never done physical labor for pay. I rest my case...

I understand that you're upset, but it's a little unclear why. When I read your posts, I get the impression that you mistakenly argue against yourself without realizing it. It's YOU who come with a lot of claims regarding the conditions of piece work versus hourly billing. Often you assert one thing but give examples (which one can assume are intended to clarify your opinion) that point in the completely opposite direction.

I would like to point out once again that I have not commented on whether one becomes lazy from hourly billing or works harder on piece rates. It's YOU YOURSELF who have tangled yourself up in a number of strange claims and examples, and I have only pointed out the consequences of what you write.

I was discussing something entirely different than the sidetrack that you yourself brought up.

Whether or not I've done "physical labor" for pay is something you have no idea about. How could you?

I can sort of guess what you really mean to say, but your argumentation doesn't contribute a whit to clarifying your stance.

 

[Polskt]

Hmm... Are you arguing just for the sake of it? How can I know that? It could be sociolinguistics or maybe I've just seen your signature? "TITLE: Total amateur and hempulare! Don't trust anything I write =)"

 

[Tyresö]

Hum... You're arguing for the sake of arguing? How can I know that? It could be sociolinguistics or maybe I've just seen your signature? "TITLE: Total amateur and tinkerer! Don't trust anything I write =)"

Hahaha! That comment will probably lead to Thomas59 smashing his keyboard when he responds, hahaha

 

[Thomas59]

Hum... Are you arguing for the sake of talking? How can I know that? Could be sociolinguistics or just that I've seen your signature? "TITLE: Total amateur and tinkerer! Don’t trust anything I write =)"

As for the comments on YOUR posts, I have hardly argued at all, just pointed out the consequences of what you yourself are saying. You seem to be both for and against your own opinions (apparently without realizing it yourself), and you don't see that every day.

Clearly, you have no idea what sociolinguistics (Språksocioligi) means, so it's hardly worth a comment.

You can interpret my signature as you wish. If you think that my signature in some way supports YOUR opinions, then that's up to you.

I still think it’s dishonest to charge for hours not worked if you’re working on a rolling bill. I can't see that you've even touched on this, which makes me quietly wonder why you're arguing about completely different things with me. It does seem a bit strange.

 

[Thomas59]

Hahaha! That comment will probably lead to Thomas59 smashing his keyboard when he replies, hahaha

Why do you think I would smash my keyboard? By the way, comment is spelled with two m's but the key on your keyboard might have come off before you managed to type the second m?

By the way, I would suggest that we end this discussion. I can't see how it contributes to shed light on the OP's question in any way. Unfortunately, I have contributed myself, which I regret. I was just a little bored and couldn't resist commenting on the confused posts your "buddy" made.

 

[Polskt]

Your problem might be that you don't know what "ackord" is? You need to finish the job. If it takes six hours, you're fast and have earned your contribution. If it takes 15, then "shit pommes fritt."

It might be interesting to hear what you work with and how much you're paid so we can get an idea of your integrity. Or we could just scrap the concept of fixed prices and "ackord"? I don't think the buyers would applaud, but the workers might.

Then there's the matter of quotes as a wise man wrote earlier that it's just a matter of taking a lower quote. The fact that you think people who work harder for more pay are dishonest is your opinion. Don't come and say you're educated in rhetoric because then I might suspect it's you who's dishonest.

I think this has become a chat-like dialogue that's not benefiting anyone on the forum, so I'm ending it (again). I hope someone got a good laugh out of it, and apologize to those who found it tedious.

Best regards/Polskt

 

[Tyresö]

Why do you think I would rip apart the keyboard? By the way, comment is spelled with two m's but maybe the key on your keyboard came loose before you managed to type the second m?

I would suggest we end this discussion. I can't see how it in any way sheds light on the OP's question. Unfortunately, I have contributed myself, which I regret. I'm mostly a bit bored and couldn't resist commenting on the confused posts your "buddy" made.

I spelled komentar with one "m" because I'm not as good at spelling as you are!

 

[PappasHammare]

.............
Now I feel that this has turned into a chat-like dialogue that doesn't hum anyone on the forum and is therefore closing down (yet again)., I hope someone got a good laugh out of it and apologize to those who found it tedious........

The only thing it showed was that craftsmen don't want to discuss and just think they are right.

 

[Polskt]

Really?

 

[Thomas59]

Your problem might be that you don't know what piecework is? You should finish the job. If it takes six hours, then you're fast and have earned your share. If it takes 15, then shit pommes frites.

It might be fun to hear what you work with and how much you get paid for it to get a sense of your integrity. Or we could just scrap everything that fast pricing and piecework entail? I don't think the buyers would applaud, but the workers might.

Then with quotes, as a wise man wrote earlier, it’s just about taking a lower quote. The fact that you think people who work extra hard to get more money are dishonest, well, that’s on you. Don't come and say you're educated in rhetoric because then I might suspect that you are the one being dishonest.

Now, I think this has turned into a chatty dialogue that benefits no one on the forum, and I'm ending it here (yet again). I hope someone got a good laugh from it and I apologize to those who found it tedious.

Best regards, Polskt

I know exactly what piecework is, but it's completely irrelevant since we're not discussing piecework here, are we? The only real point I've expressed is questioning the integrity of Stringfellow's statement that on a running account, it would be okay to charge for 8 hours even though the job only took 5-6 hours. Then you started attributing to me claims about completely different things that I haven't had opinions about. This led me to try to figure out what you really meant and in particular how you thought your example: "Do you think people would pick many liters of strawberries with an hourly wage, and don't you think craftsmen work faster with piecework too? Wake up!" supported your views. I never got an answer to this, and I can guess why.

Despite having pointed it out to you several times, you continue to happily impose opinions on me that I don't have. Most recently: "you think people who work extra hard to get more money are dishonest." Unfortunately for you, the fact is that I've expressed precisely the opposite opinion than the one you claim. For who knows how many times, I'm questioning why one should be PAID WHEN NOT WORKING, which is diametrically opposite to what you claim I think.

By the way, what would my profession and income have to do with this, if I may ask? Or whether I am honest or not. You can read what I write. Suppose I were dishonest (?). How do you mean it would affect the discussion? Lastly, I reject the kind of PM with rude behavior that I just received from you.

I understand that you don’t realize how strange your reasoning is, so I suggest we end this discussion. We can say you won if it makes you feel better.

 

[Thomas59]

And to conclude the discussion (at least from my side) I must apologize publicly for this discussion ending up in the thread. I realize that it has not contributed in any way to clarifying the OP's question. Unfortunately, I apparently cannot refrain from pointing out oddities in some craftsmen's reasoning regarding pricing and other business ethics issues.

 

[eviljava]

And to conclude the discussion (at least on my part), I probably owe a public apology for this discussion ending up in the thread. I realize that it hasn’t contributed in any way to clarifying the OP's question. Unfortunately, I apparently can’t refrain from pointing out oddities in some craftsmen's reasoning regarding pricing and other business ethics issues.

I thought the discussion was entertaining anyway.

Besides the entertainment value, I also think I've gotten a reasonable explanation for some of my craftsmen's strange pricing models?

 

[Krille4]

How can you complain that a tradesperson charges 6000 for that work (since VAT isn't theirs). They aren't doing under-the-table jobs, so there are social contributions, insurance, tools (an incredibly large cost for a construction company), vehicles, etc., that need to be paid.

Those of you who think it's outrageous should start a company. That you then get 3500 from Uncle Sam to set up your wall is another matter, and who does the administrative work? Yes, the entrepreneur.

Buy the materials yourself and assemble them.

Spot-on statement I must say: The quote is a brilliant summary of why there is a big distrust of tradespeople. d^_^b

No wonder many are skeptical about the price quotes they receive if there are tradespeople with that attitude.

/K

 

[Tyresö]

It has been mentioned in the context: Ackord, but in this specific quote, I would prefer to use the word: Beting, because ackord is a price per task and beting is a price for the entire job.

Anyone have an opinion on the choice of word?

 

[Thomas59]

It has been mentioned in the context: Piece rate, but in this specific quote, I would prefer to use the word: Task-based, because piece rate is a price on each task and task-based is a price for the entire job.

Anyone have an opinion on the choice of words?

In everyday language, piece rate and task-based are often equated but in principle, you are correct.

If you're interested in Swedish industrial history, I recommend the book "Människor i Scania under 100 år (1991)" by Professor Eric Giertz, who is currently the vice-chancellor at KTH in Stockholm. The book is not only a story about Scania's history but also a detailed description of the industry's growth and the development of trade unions and employer organizations. The book also covers the background and development of time measurement (MTM=Method Time Measurement) and there you can learn everything you need to know about piece rate and task-based. A good book in front of the fire on dark autumn evenings.