Building a door that doesn't warp?

[Saxpy]

Ok, then it wasn't such a good idea...

Someone else suggested gluing strips of k-plyfa that you "stand on edge" as frame timber. Has anyone tried that?

 

[Martin_B]

Ok, then it wasn't a good idea...

Someone else suggested gluing strips of k-plyfa together, standing them "on edge" as frame timber. Has anyone tried that?

Plyfa moves and behaves unpredictably. I would never use it for framework. Birch plyfa is more stable, but not really. You should probably use solid wood that is laminated.

 

[arrakarrak]

First of all, you shouldn't use solid timber for the framework. The doors will warp immediately because the timber twists and turns due to different temperatures around the doors. The next mistake is not moisture-proofing the door leaf. The third mistake is not making the leaf rigid in the corners by using the wrong material on the inside against the kattvinden. Do it this way instead.

Buy new studs, preferably 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They don't need to be mitered in the corners or 'half-over-half' sawn or tenoned together. They can be flush between the outer edges, and then choose the longest side as the shortest dimension. I.e., let the short studs extend to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs are 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then rip the studs along the 70 mm side into 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before ripping on both. Then take each (pair-) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will be in one end on one and in the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so that the sawn side is outward and the planed side inward against the sawn on the other paired stud. Glue and screw them together. (The method is called back-gluing with upsetting.) The wood can now twist, but the twisting is prevented because the grain opposes each other and the glued stud will become straight.

Then saw the door leaf dimensions out of a 12 mm K-plywood sheet. Turn the best side down (should be inward towards the kattvinden) and lay out the framework timber on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with clamps and screw from the other side with vfz screws. Suggestively FH 40x4. The plywood is already back-glued through crisscrossed veneer directions and therefore retains stiffness parallel to the sheet's plane and in combination with the back-glued framework also retains shape perpendicular to the sheet's plane.

P.S. If you want a really rigid door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-ply with regular 15 mm plywood which is completely flat from manufacturing. Costs a bit more and weighs a bit more, but is much better. D.S

Then drive in a couple of sturdy screws at an angle (about 45-degree angle) in the corners. Suggestively FH 120x6 vfz, and ensure the head ends up within the outer edge of the framework.

Fill the framework with insulation material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) on the framework. Cover the inside with the desired sheet material, but no thinner than 4 mm hard wood fiber.

Hinges and closing fittings.

This way, I have built industrial doors for outdoor use, among others for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they are still standing unless they've been run down by a forklift truck
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Byggaren

I'm looking for dimensions for the frame and door for a garage door b*h 260*245 cm. Do you have them? BjörnS

 

[fiskbuggaren]

Apologies for the late response. When I wrote about "halvt i halvt," I hadn't properly read your description. In my mind, I had split the studs into 21x70, meaning on the other axis. Hence, my suggestion of "halvt i halvt."

Is there any reason not to do it Mattias' way instead (apart from the obvious fact that it's more labor-intensive to split on that axis)? I think you'd get a nice unbroken surface on the outside, which is of course preferable aesthetically.

 

[fiskbuggaren]

Is there any reason not to do it Mattias' way instead (aside from the obvious that it's more difficult to split in that direction)? I figure you get a nice unbroken surface outward, which is of course preferable aesthetically.

Hm. It doesn't sound very promising. I can see how this is good against propeller warp, but after splitting, I have pieces that curve away from each other. Without considering reversing anything, they suggest it's most stable if I just put them back together exactly as they were.

 

[FGLIN]

[QUOTE="Buy new studs. Suggest 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They don't need to be mitered at the corners or 'half-and-half' sawed or mortised together. They can go directly between the outer edges, and preferably choose the longest side as the shortest measurement. That is, let the short studs extend to the edges of the long sides so that the studs on the long sides become 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then split the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side into 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before splitting on both. Then take each (pair) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will end up at one end on one and the other at the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so that it has the sawn side outwards and the planed one inwards against the sawn side on the other pair stud. Glue and screw them together. (The method is called turn-gluing with overturning.) Now the wood can warp, but the warping is prevented because the grain counteracts each other and the glued stud will remain straight.


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Byggaren[/QUOTE]

Good and interesting description, it's just a shame that almost all wood now has rounded corners which doesn't quite work well with the groove that forms during turn-gluing.
Is the screwing necessary or is gluing sufficient if you have enough clamps?

 

[Jdel]

[QUOTE="Buy new studs. Suggested size 45x70. Cut them to the length of the door leaf's outer dimensions. They don't need to be mitred at the corners or half-lapped or jointed together. They can butt against the outer edges, and in that case, choose the longest side as the shortest dimension. That means let the short studs extend to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs are 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then rip the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side to 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the saw blade's thickness). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before ripping on both. Then take each (pair) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will end up at one end on one and the other at the other end on the combined 45x68. Rotate one of them 180 degrees so that it has the sawn side outward and the planed side inward against the sawn side on the other pair. Glue and screw them together. (This method is called reverse gluing with edge flipping.) Now the wood can twist, but the twisting is prevented because the grain counteracts each other, and the glued stud will become straight.


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Builder

Good and interesting description, it's just a pity that almost all wood now has rounded corners, which doesn't work well with the groove that forms during reverse gluing. Is screwing necessary, or is gluing enough if you have enough clamps?[/QUOTE]
You run the rounded sides against the table saw and clean both sides.

 

[FGLIN]

Sure, but you might have to move up a dimension.

 

[Brok30]

First and foremost, you should not use homogeneous wood for the framework. The doors will warp immediately as the wood twists and turns due to different temperatures around the door. The next mistake is not moisture-proofing the door leaf. The third mistake is not making the leaf torsionally rigid in the corners by using the wrong materials on the inside against the kattvind. Do this instead.

Buy new studs, preferably 45x70. Cut them to length for the door leaf's outer dimensions. They don't need to be mitered at the corners or 'half-and-half' sawn or joined. They can fit snugly between the outer edges, and preferably choose the longest side as the shortest measure. That is, let the short studs extend out to the edges of the long sides so that the long sides' studs are 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then rip the studs along the 70 mm side into 2 pieces 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before sawing both. Then, for each (pair-)stud, turn one of them so the end marking ends up at one end on one and at the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so it has the sawn side outwards and the planed side inwards against the sawn side on the other paired stud. Glue and screw them together. (The method is called reverse gluing with flipping.) Now the wood can twist, but the twisting is hindered because the grain counteracts each other, and the glued stud will become straight.

Then cut the dimensions of the door leaf from a 12 mm K-plywood sheet. Place the best side down (should be inwards towards the kattvind) and lay out the frame wood on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with clamps and screw from the other side with vfz screws. Suggested FH 40x4. The plywood is inherently reverse glued due to crossed veneer directions and thus retains stiffness parallel to the sheet's plane. Combined with the reverse glued frame, it also retains form perpendicularly to the sheet's plane.

P.S. If you want a really torsionally stiff door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-plywood with regular 15 mm cross veneer that is completely flat from manufacturing. Costs a bit more and weighs more, but is much better. D.S

Then put a few solid screws at a 'slant' (about 45-degree angle) in the corners. Suggested FH 120x6 vfz and ensure the head ends up within the outer edge of the framework.

Fill the framework with insulation material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) to the framework. Cover the inside with desired sheet material, but not thinner than 4 mm hard tree fiber.

Hinges and latching hardware.

This is how I've built industrial doors for outdoor use, including for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they still hold up if they haven't been run over by a forklift
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Byggaren

Hi...
How do you feel about using glulam beams as the base material for a door frame??

 

[plan-g]

First of all, you should not use solid wood for the framework. The doors will warp immediately because the wood twists and turns due to different temperatures around the doors. The next mistake is not moisture-proofing the door leaf. The third mistake is not making the leaf moment stiff in the corners by using the wrong material on the inside against the kattvind. Instead, do this.

Buy new studs. Suggestion 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They don't need to be mitered at the corners or half-and-half-cut or mortised together. They can go flush between the outer edges, and preferably select the longest side as the shortest measure. In other words, let the short studs extend to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs become 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then split the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side to 2 pieces 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which end is the same before splitting on both. Then take each (pair) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will end up at one end on one and the other at the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so that it has the sawn side outward and the planed side inward against the sawn side on the other pair stud. Glue and screw them together. (The method is called twisting gluing with overturning.) Now the wood can twist, but the twisting is prevented by the grain opposing each other, and the glued stud will become straight.

Then cut out the dimensions of the door leaf from a 12 mm K-plywood board. Turn the best side down (should be inward towards the kattvind) and lay out the frame wood on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with vises and screw from the other side with vfz screws. Suggestion FH 40x4. The plywood is already twist-glued due to the crossed veneer directions and therefore retains the stiffness parallel to the board's plane, and in combination with the twist-glued framework, it also retains the shape perpendicular to the board's plane.

P.S. If you want a really form-stiff door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-ply with regular 15 mm plywood which is completely flat from manufacture. Costs a bit more and weighs a bit more, but is much better. E.S

Then drive in a couple of sturdy screws 'on the bias' (about a 45-degree angle) in the corners. Suggestion FH 120x6 vfz and make sure the head ends up inside the outer edge of the framework.

Fill the framework with insulation material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) to the framework. Cover the inside with desired board material, but not thinner than 4 mm hard wood fiber.

Hinges and closure fittings.

This way, I've built industrial doors for outdoor use, among other places for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they're still holding up unless driven down with a forklift
___________________
Byggaren

Thank you for an incredibly good post.
Is this a good method for building an insulated swing door for a heated garage?

 

[sofftis]

First and foremost, you should not use homogeneous timber for the framework. The doors will warp immediately because the timber twists and turns due to varying temperatures around the doors. The next mistake is not moisture-proofing the door leaf. The third mistake is not making the leaf torsionally rigid in the corners by using the wrong material on the inside toward the attic. Do this instead.

Buy new studs. Suggest 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They don’t need to be mitred at the corners or half-lapped or mortised together. They can be tightly fitted between the outer edges, and preferably choose the longest side as the shortest measure. That is, let the short studs extend to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs are 2 times the stud thickness shorter.

Then rip the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side into 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the saw blade thickness). Be sure to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before ripping on both. Then take each (pair-)stud and turn one of them so that the end marking comes to one end on one and the other end on the combined 45x68. Then rotate one 180 degrees so that it has the sawn side outwards and the planed side inwards towards the sawn side on the other pair-stud. Glue and screw them together. (The method is called vertical laminating with flipping.) Now the timber can twist, but the twisting is prevented as the grain opposes each other, and the glued stud will remain straight.

Then cut the door leaf dimensions from a 12 mm K-plywood sheet. Turn the best side downwards (should be inwards toward the attic) and lay out the frame timber on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with clamps and screw from the other side with galvanized screws. Suggest FH 40x4. The plywood is already laminated with crossed veneer directions and thus maintains stiffness parallel to the plane of the sheet, and in combination with the laminated framework, it also retains shape perpendicular to the plane of the sheet.

P.S. If you want a really form-stable door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-ply with regular 15 mm plywood, which is completely flat from manufacturing. Costs a bit more and weighs a bit more, but is much better. End note

Then drive in a couple of sturdy screws at an angle (about 45-degree angle) in the corners. Suggest FH 120x6 galvanized and make sure the head ends up inside the framework's outer edge.

Fill the framework with insulation material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) to the framework. Line the inside with desired sheet material, but not thinner than 4 mm hardboard.

Hinges and closing fittings.

This is how I've built industrial doors for outdoor use, including for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they still hold unless they've been run over by a forklift
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Byggaren

How much does it cost to order a door from you, 80 wide storage door? We checked Byggmax and Bauhaus and weren't too happy because they pinch. Landskrona