166 läst ·
3 svar
166 läst
3 svar
4evergreen chemical free waste system
does anyone have any experience trying to get the company to fix there none working expensive system.
i have the chemical free option as its supposed to be hassle free. but each time the local municipality wants to inspect it, the phosphate levels are way too high.
its just been serviced by them and they said phosphate level is high at 5.7 ? percentage or ppm it doesn't say.
i did a test and got 16.4 ppm which is very high
they said its because it was emptied 5 months ago and only has 5% sludge so need to increase the emptying interval to 2 or 3 yrs.
it is due for inspection again in august but will fail again all at my expense, i pay for the inspection then pay for sending samples etc and any follow up work if it needs any
what can i do to solve the problem permanently please.
ive contacted 4evergreen 2 weeks ago and got a response saying they will pass the details on to the expert ,no further contact. i messaged the service technician also and no reply
i have the chemical free option as its supposed to be hassle free. but each time the local municipality wants to inspect it, the phosphate levels are way too high.
its just been serviced by them and they said phosphate level is high at 5.7 ? percentage or ppm it doesn't say.
i did a test and got 16.4 ppm which is very high
they said its because it was emptied 5 months ago and only has 5% sludge so need to increase the emptying interval to 2 or 3 yrs.
it is due for inspection again in august but will fail again all at my expense, i pay for the inspection then pay for sending samples etc and any follow up work if it needs any
what can i do to solve the problem permanently please.
ive contacted 4evergreen 2 weeks ago and got a response saying they will pass the details on to the expert ,no further contact. i messaged the service technician also and no reply
this written via google translator so quality...
The test kit states phosphorus as the amount of phosphoric acid (PO4) but the requirements are calculated as pure phosphorus (P) and for the amount of pure phosphorus it is usually referred to as PO4-P
To calculate the proportion of pure phosphorus from phosphoric acid, divide the weight of phosphoric acid by 3 to obtain the pure phosphorus proportion
In other words 16.4 ppm PO4, which can also be stated as 16.4 mg/l and this divided by 3 gives 5.47 mg/l of pure phosphorus (and is often written as PO4-P) which is quite similar to the previously stated value during service.
If you have a sewage system with a higher protection level, it must not be more than 1 mg/l PO4-P (90% reduction) in Sweden for individual sewage systems, but if it is a normal protection level, the reduction must be at least 70% (max. 3 mg/l PO4-P) - provided that the household actually consumes at least 140-170 liters of water per person per day, which the milligram values of phosphorus are based on, otherwise the lower discharge will be more concentrated without it being the case that the emissions are larger calculated as the total amount per day.
If you have a water meter and can see how much water is actually consumed and it is much below 170 liters per person per day (according to the water and sea authorities), it can give higher phosphorus levels in the sewage without the total amount of phosphorus per person and day exceeding the limits (3 mg PO4-P * 170 liters = 510 mg/day/person) when a person emits between 1.6 - 2.2 grams per day and person via their urine and feces.
If you have a higher protection level, I would say that it is impossible to keep phosphorus levels low enough under 1mg/l PO4-P with mini-treatment plants without the help of precipitation chemicals (iron or aluminum-based) or the use of polonite bags - but that should have already been a stop for chemical-free mini-treatment plants already at the time of the sewage application to the municipality.
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The other thing you should keep an eye on with mini-purification plants is to check that the pH value does not get too low (not so much below pH 6, and below pH 5 is catastrophic level ), which can be a problem if you have soft water that buffers poorly - if it is too low, the decomposition will not go as it should (among other things, denitrification stops and not longer remove nitrate, and the pH becomes even more acidic when the urea in the urine eventually becomes nitrates which in turn lowers the pH and then there may not be enough bacteria growing that are supposed to bind the phosphorus to the cell body and then sink as sludge and therefore less phosphorus is separated than is intended).
The test kit states phosphorus as the amount of phosphoric acid (PO4) but the requirements are calculated as pure phosphorus (P) and for the amount of pure phosphorus it is usually referred to as PO4-P
To calculate the proportion of pure phosphorus from phosphoric acid, divide the weight of phosphoric acid by 3 to obtain the pure phosphorus proportion
In other words 16.4 ppm PO4, which can also be stated as 16.4 mg/l and this divided by 3 gives 5.47 mg/l of pure phosphorus (and is often written as PO4-P) which is quite similar to the previously stated value during service.
If you have a sewage system with a higher protection level, it must not be more than 1 mg/l PO4-P (90% reduction) in Sweden for individual sewage systems, but if it is a normal protection level, the reduction must be at least 70% (max. 3 mg/l PO4-P) - provided that the household actually consumes at least 140-170 liters of water per person per day, which the milligram values of phosphorus are based on, otherwise the lower discharge will be more concentrated without it being the case that the emissions are larger calculated as the total amount per day.
If you have a water meter and can see how much water is actually consumed and it is much below 170 liters per person per day (according to the water and sea authorities), it can give higher phosphorus levels in the sewage without the total amount of phosphorus per person and day exceeding the limits (3 mg PO4-P * 170 liters = 510 mg/day/person) when a person emits between 1.6 - 2.2 grams per day and person via their urine and feces.
If you have a higher protection level, I would say that it is impossible to keep phosphorus levels low enough under 1mg/l PO4-P with mini-treatment plants without the help of precipitation chemicals (iron or aluminum-based) or the use of polonite bags - but that should have already been a stop for chemical-free mini-treatment plants already at the time of the sewage application to the municipality.
---
The other thing you should keep an eye on with mini-purification plants is to check that the pH value does not get too low (not so much below pH 6, and below pH 5 is catastrophic level ), which can be a problem if you have soft water that buffers poorly - if it is too low, the decomposition will not go as it should (among other things, denitrification stops and not longer remove nitrate, and the pH becomes even more acidic when the urea in the urine eventually becomes nitrates which in turn lowers the pH and then there may not be enough bacteria growing that are supposed to bind the phosphorus to the cell body and then sink as sludge and therefore less phosphorus is separated than is intended).
Redigerat:
Hello
Thank you for such an in-depth response, my property is in falkenberg and it seems very strict on phosphate levels.
I don't know how many liters per day we use as we have a well and pump. I could fit an inline meter to measure the amount if it would make a difference to my allowed phosphate levels,?
and I have never measured the pH level but the service report says 7.8
It would be nice if 4evergreen actually tried to help and advise me, but it seems they are only interested in selling the system and a service contract.
I am not allowed to add chemicals or phosphate trap without applying for permission 1st. So I'm still unsure what my next step should be so it can pass inspection in August and not Incure further expenses from falkenberg kommun.
Thank you for such an in-depth response, my property is in falkenberg and it seems very strict on phosphate levels.
I don't know how many liters per day we use as we have a well and pump. I could fit an inline meter to measure the amount if it would make a difference to my allowed phosphate levels,?
and I have never measured the pH level but the service report says 7.8
It would be nice if 4evergreen actually tried to help and advise me, but it seems they are only interested in selling the system and a service contract.
I am not allowed to add chemicals or phosphate trap without applying for permission 1st. So I'm still unsure what my next step should be so it can pass inspection in August and not Incure further expenses from falkenberg kommun.
This is tricky...
The problem is that the municipality strictly monitors its measurements of the phosphorus content on sampel and it will be difficult to argue that the higher level is due to the household consuming much less water per person than normal (and you can prove it with the lower water consumption over a longer period of time) - probably a futile battle with the municipality that does not want to listen to that ear...
If the pH stays around pH 7, there should be no problem with the decomposition in the mini-treatment plant and that in itself can also be a problem if the decomposition works 'too well', then even the bacteria that have grown and bound the phosphorus will die and the dead bacteria will of course also have a decomposition process that in turn will start to release the bound phosphorus again...
I don't really know what you can do other than cheat for a period before they do the measurement with long showers and a lot of bathing every day so that the values go below 3 mg/l PO4-P and rely on the supplier of the mini-treatment plant to decide what to do to meet the requirements... ...but as you say, these are most interested in selling products, not taking care of the problems afterwards...
I myself have always been hesitant about solutions with 'chemical-free' mini-treatment plants as it is a biological process that must find a level where bacteria grow and die with more and more sludge with bound phosphorus that should preferably not be released again, which of course it does with dead material but then the living must be able to absorb this plus what comes with incoming sewage must also be absorbed - and to make the whole thing work with good margins and without being a process engineer at the same time, well..
The problem is that the municipality strictly monitors its measurements of the phosphorus content on sampel and it will be difficult to argue that the higher level is due to the household consuming much less water per person than normal (and you can prove it with the lower water consumption over a longer period of time) - probably a futile battle with the municipality that does not want to listen to that ear...
If the pH stays around pH 7, there should be no problem with the decomposition in the mini-treatment plant and that in itself can also be a problem if the decomposition works 'too well', then even the bacteria that have grown and bound the phosphorus will die and the dead bacteria will of course also have a decomposition process that in turn will start to release the bound phosphorus again...
I don't really know what you can do other than cheat for a period before they do the measurement with long showers and a lot of bathing every day so that the values go below 3 mg/l PO4-P and rely on the supplier of the mini-treatment plant to decide what to do to meet the requirements... ...but as you say, these are most interested in selling products, not taking care of the problems afterwards...
I myself have always been hesitant about solutions with 'chemical-free' mini-treatment plants as it is a biological process that must find a level where bacteria grow and die with more and more sludge with bound phosphorus that should preferably not be released again, which of course it does with dead material but then the living must be able to absorb this plus what comes with incoming sewage must also be absorbed - and to make the whole thing work with good margins and without being a process engineer at the same time, well..
Redigerat:
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