230v Norwesco spis till 400v 3-fas

[vimvq1987]

Hi all,
Sorry for using English (again). I'm trying to buy a new induktionspis as my wife is unhappy with the current one - glaskeramik (she says it's too slow to cook compared with the one in our previous apartment). However the old one is using 400v, and it seems to draw 3 x 16A from our fuse box. I'm yet to open the outlet, but let's assume it has a neutral line.

The problem is the new induktionspis is 230v with Norwesco contact, this one specifically: http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=3313840 . I tried to search but not sure, is it always 1 phase, or it can be configured to be two phases? In case it's 1 phase then I guess the wire must be able to hold (at least) 25A, aka it must be at least 4mm2. Is that correct? Even with 25A, is that OK to feed the hob/oven which is rated at 7100w?

Thanks.

 

[Bo.Siltberg]

Ask the shop for a stove that can be connected to three phases. You shall not have a single-phase stove as you have three phases to the outlet, it cannot easily be converted to one phase. We have yet not seen a full-size stove that cannot be rewired and connected to three phases, but it must be confirmed by the dealer and/or the marking on the stove. The low total power (7 kW) of this stove indicates that it might not support three phases. The product information is unfortunately unclear on this point, so please complain to the shop.

 

[hempularen]

Many single phase appliances can be regonfigured for operation with 2 or 3 phases. Some have a detailed installation manual regarding how to configure it. Or al least a connection diagram near the power cord. Even in cases where such diagrams don't exist, it is often obvious for someone with a good knowlage of electrical design, how it can be reconfigured.

But there are also devices that cannot be reconfigured, without "redesigning" the interrior.

I would not buy a stove where there is no documented way for how to connect it to 2 or 3 phases.

IF you would need to run it on a single phase, it is normal to run on 20A, which requires thicker wiring that you probably have now. In single phase appartments in older houses, you normaly have a main fuse for 25A, and the stove connected via a 20A fuse.

 

[hempularen]

Many of those single phase stoves have a buil in power limiter, it will reduce power if too many cooking zones are active at the same time. It would be a pity to have that in a house that supports full powerneed.

 

[vimvq1987]

Thanks for all the answers so far

I had a chat with Elgigaten and they said that it should be possible to rewrite the induction hob to use 3 phases and to Perilex plug. While I hope this is true, (is it ?), then what should I do now? I was told to buy the Perilex plug (assuming with the cord) for the installation men. And then they can plug it directly to the current Perilex outlet?

If I understand correctly then 400V is between phases and 230V is between a phase and the neutral line - which is why the neutral line is so important now. If it turns out that we don't have the neutral line in place - we will have to rewire it from the fusion box, right?

 

[hempularen]

You have understood right regarding the potential rewiring.

One way to "check" if you have it is to look at the marking on you current stove. If there is something about "elementspänning 230V", then you know that your current stove also wants a neutral (or it may be a reason for why it is slow...), a missing neutral results in either overvoltage or undervoltage on the elements depending on balance between them. The overvoltage in case of missing neutral often burns the electronic system, the elements seem to survive in many cases.

Aother way of checking is to unscrew the cover on the oulet and simply look at it. If it is connected in the outlet, there is of course a slim chance that it still isn't connected in the feeding end of the cable, but that is so unlikely that the risk can be ignored.

 

[hempularen]

But if I where you, I would also check if there is a power limiter in that stove, and IF so, is it possible to get it removed in some simple way. I know that on some brands there is a configurable limiter.

 

[Bo.Siltberg]

And I would'nt trust Elgiganten too much when they say it should work... The marking plate with installation instructions on the back of the stove will tell the truth.

 

[tommib]

Check the sample stove in the store. It should have the marking plate, "typskylt", on the back, that should describe the installation options. You are looking for one option that says 3N~ (or possibly 2N~) 400V. It might even detail that the phases are at 230V with regards to the neutral.

Is it just me or is it stupid that the instruction manual devotes a multitude of pages to sample recipies and environmental information but can't be bothered to briefly list the installation options.

 

[vimvq1987]

It seems that we are lucky, the neutral line is there

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Now ... what. I went to MediaMarket yesterday but the way they place the sample hobs - it's impossible to see if the Siemens/Bosch spisar should be able to handle the 3 phases 230v.

 

[tommib]

Yes, that looks good. Just to check, are there five conductors coming from the cable? They should be Yellow/Green, Blue, Brown, Black and Grey. It's the grey one I can't see. Also, they should normally be connected L1=Brown, L2=Black, L3=Grey but for a stove/hob it doesn't matter (in this case, if grey is connected to L2 it doesn't matter for a motor either since the phase order is correct anyway)

Regarding MediaMarkt and other stores, ask a sales person to pull the hob out for you. That's why they are there (since they usually can't answer anything more technical than "does this run on electricity").

 

[vimvq1987]

Hi, yes, they all come from the cable. I guess the most important thing is the blue line aka neutral? The yellow line is ground and other lines are the phases and those do not really matter which is which?

Thanks for the tip about the store. Will try it the next time

 

[hempularen]

You might also try to contact Siemens swedish supportline.

 

[vimvq1987]

I contacted them and here's their response:

"This product is at 7100 W. This can´t be connected with 3-fas 16A and neutral, only 2-fas 16A and neutral.

You need to look at a stove with over 10.000 W."

And now I'm even more confused. Is it true that:

- If the hob is 3 phase 230v then I can just plug it in directly to the Perilex outlet, because the neutral line is there?
- If the hob is 2 phase 230v then the Perilex outlet need to be rewire to be 2 phase + 2 neutral?

Thanks all for your answers

 

[Kane]

- If the hob is 2 phase 230v then the Perilex outlet need to be rewire to be 2 phase + 2 neutral?

You need to install a cable w/Perilex connector in the stove with 4 wire; 2 phases, neutral and ground. Double check that the neutral wire meets the neutral in the socket.