Roof beams, load-bearing or not?

[JeBo89]

Hi,

I have some plans to renovate the kitchen at home. The house is old and the ceiling height is nothing to boast about. The problem is that there are visible beams in the kitchen ceiling, which complicates and limits both the number and height of kitchen cabinets.

I don't personally know how to determine if the beams are load-bearing or just installed as a rustic interior detail.

Anyone here who can offer some good tips?
Attaching some pictures of how it looks.

 

[datja]

What does it look like if you look at the attic? What does the building plan look like?

 

[JeBo89]

What does it look like if you look at the attic? What does the building plan look like?

There is no plan unfortunately, I have an upper floor so no attic to peek at.

 

[datja]

There is no blueprint unfortunately, I have an upper floor with no attic to look at.

Aha, so this could possibly be the intermediate beam layer?

 

[BirgitS]

Can you determine the distance between the white inner ceiling and the floor above?

 

[JeBo89]

Approx. 160mm

 

[BirgitS]

It's not much for an intermediate floor, but a bit too much for just subfloor and floor.
What kind of floor is above?

How old is the house?

 

[JeBo89]

Laminate flooring, can't recall exactly but early 1900s

 

[lärjungen]

Can you drill a small inspection hole somewhere near the outer wall so that it's not very visible, and then measure on the drill bit how thick it is between the kitchen ceiling and the upper floor?

 

[JeBo89]

It is approximately 160mm corresponding to the gray part in the image.

 

[BirgitS]

That is probably not the original. Have you checked if the municipality has building permits or notices that have been submitted later?

 

[Matti_75]

If I'm seeing correctly, the bottom of the beams is at the same height roughly as the ceiling in the adjacent room, which indicates that they are part of the structure. The dimensions of the timber also suggest this.

 

[lärjungen]

Is there somewhere you can imagine opening up the floor on the upper level, or alternatively opening up the ceiling in the kitchen to inspect how it connects? For example, if you take down an upper cabinet in the kitchen and open up there. Then the intervention is somewhat hidden when you put the upper cabinet back if it's difficult to patch up nicely. The hole doesn't have to be excessively large either, maybe just removing a piece about 30x30 cm or so will suffice. Just so you can look up into the ceiling and see if there are beams that are independent of the visible beams.

Edit: be prepared that a lot of sawdust might come down if the floor between is insulated according to older standards.

 

[Oldboy]

My goodness! A house from the early 1900s. Obviously, these beams are part of the load-bearing structure. The upper floor/joist is built to insulate the lower floor from the upper floor. Otherwise, it would have just been a plank floor in between, where both dust and sound would have traveled through. These beams also play a vital role, just like in any log house, in tying the outer walls together.

So, they cannot be removed or notched out unless the entire upper floor from the wall plate and upwards is replaced.