Is this really professionally done by an experienced carpenter?
Member
· Etelä Pohjanmaa
· 2 467 posts
But that will end up behind the switch cover so I don't understand the problem? I've read similar threads from you where you complain about other "defects" that won't be visible. You seem to have a very complicated life, Merry Christmas.
I'm not defending the carpenter, I think it's clumsy, alternatively sloppy or incompetently done. A carpenter should know the concept of a hole saw and hole-in-one.roland53 said:There is no reason to defend the carpenter in this case, I think. As an amateur, I succeed much better on my projects :x
Well, 1 extra hour, maybe not per box but let's say half an hour extra per box. With the hourly rates today + materials. Then we're talking 7x0.5x500:- = 2,000 kr in rough additional costs and the result is still mediocre.
Should one accept that?
Not in my world anyway, the construction company can put on their Santa hats and fix new boards. Because they seem to be real Santas trying to talk away the carpenter's shortcomings. Is it really a carpenter who has been involved? In today's construction rush, there seems to be a shortage of professionals, so some Santas might be hired. Santas are, by definition, unemployed a large part of the year.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL
If it's just this thing, I think one can accept it. Everyone makes mistakes at work sometimes, and then you have to take some time to correct it. And it's the entirety that the customer pays for. It's when there start to be several such errors that there's reason to complain properly about it. And if the professional leaves the job with remaining errors that they've missed, I think that's a back job that they have to come back and fix at their own expense.
I say it might take an extra hour to fix all the boxes with extra spackle. A painter probably starts by spackling the boxes since there's a thicker layer there than on the rest of the wall. This gives these the most drying time. Applying the spackle to a box might take 1 minute per box. With 4 layers of spackle, it becomes 7 x 4 =~ half an hour. Then you have to spend a few extra seconds around each box with the sander when sanding the room. If you're unlucky, there are extra drying times so the painter has to come one more time, which could add up to maybe 2 extra hours, but the painter should be able to think through the job in such a way to avoid this.
As an amateur, I spackle the walls in an entire room of 20 square meters in a few hours and sand the same room with the sander in under an hour. This is really no big deal for an experienced painter.
I've encountered professionals who have messed up significantly worse. A truck driver dumped an entire load of earth right over an apple tree despite extremely clear instructions to be careful with the tree and then tried to excuse themselves. Two carpenters forgot to put a flashing around the chimney with roofing felt (discovered a year later, no damage fortunately), electricians have left non-functioning outlets and a shorted circuit group, etc.
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 17 posts
I'm mainly wondering why one chooses to do it the long and most complicated way when there's a hole saw that saves extra work. As a customer, I'm now paying extra, and there's a risk that such patching will crack since it's regular filler that's been used. In fact, the cover plate won't cover certain holes. Life isn't more complicated than you make it, but feel free to speculate about my life if you wantFinndjävel said:
Merry Christmas to you too!sure, it becomes loose because the socket isn't securely fixed. It takes just pulling out the vacuum cleaner cord a few times with excessive force for the plaster to crumble and fall below the outlet.
Exactly when the vacuuming was finished!
What do you mean so what!
I would report it without hesitation.
Exactly when the vacuuming was finished!
What do you mean so what!
I would report it without hesitation.
Member
· Västra Götaland
· 1 849 posts
Are you kidding?Lars48 said:
If you can't fill around that box without it cracking, you shouldn't be allowed within 100m of filler and paint. Then make sure the outlet/switch is installed so it doesn't wiggle, not hard either.
But the work is done clumsily, but it doesn't entail major costs and absolutely no problems except for extra work.
Renovation rookie
· Dalarna
· 3 173 posts
Yes, the box is probably screwed in so it shouldn't be loose.
No, I think you should compile the errors and demand a reasonable deduction for the extra time that normally isn't required in certain tasks.
No, I think you should compile the errors and demand a reasonable deduction for the extra time that normally isn't required in certain tasks.
Naturally, you use the right hole saw for the right box, anything else is carelessness, cheating, or ignorance. I have three different ones to choose from, T70 for device boxes, T80 for junction and ceiling boxes, and there's a special box that I seldom use but needs a smaller hole cutter than T70.
The cutters I have are 74mm, 84mm, and 68mm respectively.
And all serious professionals have at least the first two in their toolkit and choose correctly.
When they make a mistake like that, it will take extra time no matter what they do, whether they patch or replace the drywall. You should not have to pay for that time, as they missed a very basic thing, nothing else to blame.
The cutters I have are 74mm, 84mm, and 68mm respectively.
And all serious professionals have at least the first two in their toolkit and choose correctly.
When they make a mistake like that, it will take extra time no matter what they do, whether they patch or replace the drywall. You should not have to pay for that time, as they missed a very basic thing, nothing else to blame.
In my house, I have put wallpaper on the walls. This way, you can't see that it's been spackled over screw holes and seams. I then placed switches and power outlets over all the boxes, so even they aren't visible. Last but not least, I screwed my boxes into the underlying wooden construction in the wall, so they don't fall out when I unplug something.
Maybe a tip for all amateurs.
Maybe a tip for all amateurs.
I would say it's a borderline case.
If the work is to proceed somewhat quickly, one must use a slightly oversized hole saw. That's always how it's done, and sometimes one is forced to carve away a bit with the utility knife on one edge as well. Any cracks and gaps are covered by the cover plate.
Anyone who has screwed gypsum on a professional level knows this.
In this case, I think they have used a slightly larger hole saw than necessary, and that's wrong, but the principle is entirely correct. Normally, one would use a 76 mm hole saw for those boxes.
If the work is to proceed somewhat quickly, one must use a slightly oversized hole saw. That's always how it's done, and sometimes one is forced to carve away a bit with the utility knife on one edge as well. Any cracks and gaps are covered by the cover plate.
Anyone who has screwed gypsum on a professional level knows this.
In this case, I think they have used a slightly larger hole saw than necessary, and that's wrong, but the principle is entirely correct. Normally, one would use a 76 mm hole saw for those boxes.
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If there are only holes behind, it should be fine. However, if there had been wood and the filler adhered both to the wood and to the plaster, there would have been a strong potential for cracks.robba5 said:
Not a very nice procedure by the carpenter. Instead of spending a thousand on the right tool for the purpose, the customer has to pay extra labor costs for filling and tidying up the holes. Not okay in my book.
Isn't the hourly rate justified by covering tools and the vehicle? Then they should spend money on that too.
The fewer tools one needs, the cheaper one is completely independent of time consumption. Wages can indeed go unpaid, but not the purchase of tools. One of the more memorable arguments was when we had to move 20 cubic meters of gravel and the boss believed that wheelbarrows were too expensive, so everything had to be carried in buckets. Another memorable argument was when it was considered cheaper to stand and cut large amounts of wall studs with a handsaw than to bring in a circular saw........ and then the same boss had the nerve to demand unpaid overtime because the partition walls were progressing too slowly. The cheapest contractor is popular among customers, and the cheapest contractor, by definition, lacks tools.