Does Isover's spacer sleeve provide an air gap (facade board)?

[SBH]

On roofs, you have support battens so that the water that seeps through, for example, metal seams can run off.

Exactly. However, there is also a solution for roofs with horizontal metal beams with holes in them, which is intended to eliminate the use of support battens. How widely used these metal beams are, I do not know.

 

[smurfen72]

Below are excerpts from the Results and Conclusions of the research for those who don't have the energy to read the entire thing.
SBH: you still don't believe that you're building wrong, even cutting corners when you've got it in black and white that your way is incorrect and research has shown this

It has been shown that air exchange and convective moisture transport in cavities are affected by a very large number of factors. The main conclusions from the work are that:

•  Convective moisture transport and drying processes in cavities are favored by a large cavity width of 25-40 mm and vertical battens that do not add flow resistance
  
  
•  With horizontal, perforated battens, the convective moisture transport is reduced compared to vertical battens, especially when the cavity openings do not restrict the flow area
  
  
•  Cavities with a width of < 10 mm have a severely limited ability for convective moisture transport, and drying times can be very long
  
  
•  Season, façade color, façade orientation, cavity height, and detail design at the cavity openings are all factors that are significant for the potential convective moisture transport

Moisture exchange and convective moisture transport
With wet material surfaces against the cavity, calculated moisture exchange [g/m2∙day] varies widely. Small cavity width, north orientation, light façade color, and horizontal battens negatively impact moisture exchange. In this drying phase, it applies that moisture exchange:

•  Is about 30 times greater with a 40 mm cavity width compared to 5 mm (south orientation)
  
  
•  Reduces to about one quarter with north orientation instead of south orientation
  
  
•  Reduces to about one third if the color is light instead of dark (south orientation)
  
  
•  Reduces to less than half with horizontal battens instead of vertical
  1. Air exchange over a long period
     The average air exchange in the experimental walls' cavities during the period from October to February could be estimated to:
     •  230-310 air changes per hour with execution with vertical battens
       
       
     •  75-100 air changes per hour with execution with horizontal battens Lindab
       
       
     •  95-130 air changes per hour with execution with horizontal battens Europrofil

You write that the air exchange is reduced to less than half but that's with gypsum on the façade. How much is the air exchange reduced with a wood panel that is grooved on the outside?

 

[smurfen72]

Read properly! extra spacers I wrote. Obviously, there must be spacers otherwise it won't work.

Mistake on my part, I thought you were going to run without spacers and extra spacers weren't relevant or where would they sit.

 

[hul]

You write that the air exchange is reduced to less than half, but that is with plasterboard on the facade. How much is the air exchange reduced with wood paneling that is grooved on the outside?

I don't have any figures on that.
But it is clearly stated in several of the studies that horizontal battens and ventilation through the panel are not sufficient.
See my previous posts.

 

[RoBo]

My mistake, I thought you were going without spacers and extra spacers were not relevant or where would they go.

Maybe a bit unclearly written, I meant battens or spacers outside the existing ones to create an air gap. It's hard to write correctly sometimes when you have it all figured out in your head how the thinking is.

 

[SBH]

I don't have any figures on that.
But it is clearly stated in several of the studies that horizontal battens and ventilation via panel are not sufficient.
See my previous posts

then I ask. why does, for example, Isover provide this solution?
why don't they make an example with cross-laid nails?

 

[hul]

then I ask. why does isover provide this solution?
why don't they make an example with crossed nail battens?

I can't answer that.
But just because a supplier provides an installation guide doesn't mean it's correct.

Different suppliers often provide different installation guides. Often it comes down to money.

There are, for example, some suppliers who still advocate single-stage sealed facades.

 

[SBH]

I can't answer that.
But just because a supplier provides assembly instructions doesn't mean they're correct.

Different suppliers often provide different assembly instructions. Often it's about money.

There are, for example, certain suppliers who still advocate for single-stage sealed facades

you mean proposing something that is harmful to the panel and its insulation.

so you think that wood panel facades should be built similarly to how plaster/brick facades are built?

 

[SBH]

I can't answer that.
But just because a supplier provides an assembly instruction doesn't mean it's correct.

Different suppliers often provide different assembly instructions. Often it's about money.

For example, there are certain suppliers who still advocate single-step sealed facades

where do you place plastic and where do you place a wind barrier?

 

[hul]

where do you put plastic and where do you put wind barrier?

What, what kind of question was that?
What does that have to do with it?

 

[smurfen72]

I don't have figures on that.
But it is clearly stated in several of the studies that horizontal ribs and ventilation via panels are not sufficient.
See my previous posts

The studies don't seem to be conducted very seriously if they even compare a space of 28-32 mm with a single-sealed facade where the facade is in direct contact with the underlying material. Strange if approximately halved airflow makes such a big difference that it's compared to a single-sealed facade.

 

[hul]

The studies don't seem to be conducted very seriously if they even compare a cavity of 28-32 mm with a single-stage sealed facade where the facade is directly in contact with underlying material. Strange if approximately halved air flow makes such a big difference that it's compared with a single-stage sealed facade.

They equate it with what I do.
And it's correct. If you introduce a lot of moisture into the air gap, then it's no longer a two-stage sealed facade but rather a single-stage sealed one.

 

[smurfen72]

The difference is not whether the moisture gets in or not, but how it disappears. A single-stage sealed facade is usually not a problem if you build houses as they are traditionally done.

 

[hul]

The difference is probably not whether the moisture gets in or not but how it disappears. A single-stage sealed facade is usually not a problem if you build houses as traditionally done.

Absolutely, there's really nothing wrong with a single-stage sealed facade in itself. It's just very sensitive to when things do go wrong, as the consequences quickly become very serious.

 

[SBH]

What, what was the question?
What does it have to do with anything?

just answer