Does Isover's spacer sleeve provide an air gap (facade board)?

[hul]

ok. I understand then. no point in trying to explain to you then

in other words, you are a carpenter at heart and have become a tired supervisor in your older days because you can't keep up with the pace. Does that hit close to home?

 

[hul]

ok. I understand. no point in trying to explain to you then

No, considering that the research supports everything I say and you haven't managed to come up with anything that supports your theories, nor has anyone else in this thread. Except for the fact that you have done it like this before and it worked then, why change?

 

[SBH]

in other words, you are a carpenter at heart who has become a tired foreman in your later years because you can't keep up with the piecework. Does it sting?

why are you trolling?¨

ever worked as a carpenter.
or is it from the school desk straight to site manager?

 

[GK100]

You must surely understand that it is perfectly fine to build both with and without vertical battens according to any of the systems with boards and assembly details discussed here? If you have gained some knowledge and absorbed ideas from various methods and eras, you can choose a path entirely on your own. A bit like what Smurfen, SBH, etc., have previously touched upon.

It's good that you present these reports and findings, but why create unnecessary fuss as well. Trying to strengthen through titles, etc., doesn't increase my confidence, at least not for me.

 

[hul]

why are you trolling

I'm not, I also want to learn something.
I can certainly change my mind if proven otherwise.

That's why I'm asking you to present any studies/surveys/articles, basically anything that supports your claims.

I have presented facts regarding what I've said from well-renowned people in the field.

 

[SBH]

You must surely be able to understand that it is perfectly possible to build both with and without standing battens in accordance with some of the systems with panels and fitting details that are mentioned here? If one has a bit of knowledge and has absorbed thoughts from various methods and eras, one can simply choose a path entirely on their own. A bit like what Smurfen, SBH, and others have touched upon earlier.

It's good that you present these reports and findings, but why create unnecessary fuss as well. Trying to strengthen through titles, etc. does not increase my confidence.

it usually works this way with people in the construction industry who haven't been active in the construction industry but directly from school to a higher position.

 

[hul]

You must surely be able to understand that it is perfectly possible to build both with and without vertical battens in accordance with some of the systems with boards and assembly details mentioned here. If you have some knowledge yourself and have absorbed ideas from various methods and eras, you can choose your own path. A bit like what Smurfen, SBH, etc. have touched on before.

It's good that you present these reports and findings, but why create unnecessary fuss as well. Trying to bolster through titles, etc., doesn't give me increased confidence at least.

Yes, absolutely, it's perfectly feasible to build in both ways, but if one is better and the other is not fully adequate, which is generally known and demonstrated in most studies I've read, then it's good to present this to people who think they are building correctly when they are actually constructing a risk structure.

It will probably work on several houses not to use wide air gaps, but why take the chance when you know it's a risk structure that can be avoided? There was even a reader who thought he had ventilation through the corner boards, which is obviously not correct. Isn't it good for them to be informed if they have other facts?

But I agree with you that of course, you can build however you like.

 

[hul]

usually works like this with people in the construction industry who have not been active in the construction industry but directly from school to a higher position.

What? Although I have worked as a carpenter for almost 4 years, not long but I have done it.

But it says a little about you, incredibly narrow-minded that people coming from school are not capable.
It says more about you and your attitude.

 

[SBH]

What? I have indeed worked as a carpenter for almost 4 years, not long but I have done it.

But that says a bit about you, incredibly narrow-minded to think that people coming from school are not capable.
It says more about you and your attitude.

have long worked with people who come directly from the school bench. have gotten some to understand that not everything can be learned from books.
four years gives no good insight.

 

[hul]

have long worked with people coming straight from school. got some to understand that not everything can be learned from books. four years do not give good insight.

okay, then we have clearly established that I have worked for too short a time and am just an academic, which should not be listened to.

can we return to the question?
can you present any studies/research/articles or pretty much anything that supports your claims?

I have presented facts regarding what I have said from well-renowned people in the industry.

 

[SBH]

okay then we have made it clear that I have worked for a short time and am just an academic who should not be listened to.

can we get back to the question?
can you provide any kind of studies/research/articles, anything in principle, that supports your claims.

I have presented facts regarding what I've said from well-renowned people in the industry.

you have given facts from theories and research.
I only have facts from houses that are still standing with a functioning facade.

 

[hul]

Here are some excerpts from a highly comprehensive research article where tests have been conducted on real buildings, etc., although it is done by an academic. I highly recommend reading this.

"The results show small differences in drying time between cavities with widths of 25 and 40 mm performed with vertical battens, especially if the detail design at cavity openings limits the flow area. A design with horizontal battens prolongs the drying time compared to vertical wooden battens, especially if the facade is light or north-facing. A notable result is that a small cavity width (< 10 mm) is very unfavorable for drying time, which, depending on the exact choice of materials, can be on par with the drying times obtained when the facade completely lacks an air gap and has a plaster layer on insulation."

"Small cavity width, light facade color, and north-facing facade orientation are shown to be unfavorable factors for moisture exchange."

https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/ws/files/4219237/1730985.pdf

 

[hul]

you have provided facts from theories and research.
I only have facts from houses that still stand with a functioning facade.

read through the research I just linked to.
there they test real constructions and have very clear answers that the way you build is not sufficient.
You are simply building wrong.

 

[SBH]

Here are some excerpts from a highly comprehensive research article where tests have been conducted on actual buildings, etc., although it is done by an academic. I highly recommend reading this.

"The results show small differences in drying time between slots with widths of 25 and 40 mm executed with vertical battens, especially if the detailing at the slot openings limits the flow area. A design with horizontal battens extends the drying time compared to vertical wood battens, especially if the facade is light or oriented north. A notable result is that a small slot width (< 10 mm) is very unfavorable for drying time, which, depending on the exact material choices, can be on par with the drying times obtained when the facade completely lacks an air gap and has a plaster layer on insulation."

"Small slot width, light facade color, and north-oriented facade direction are shown to be unfavorable factors for moisture exchange"

[link]

Yes, if you search long enough, you will come across my licentiate thesis, which I write more or less the same for another company and another Technical University.

 

[hul]

Below are excerpts from the Results and Conclusions of the research for those who don't feel like reading the whole thing.
SBH: you still don't believe you are building wrong, even cheating, when you have it in black and white that your method is incorrect and research has shown this.

It has been shown that air exchange and convective moisture transport in cavities are affected by a very large number of factors. The main conclusions from the work are that:

•  convective moisture transport and drying process in cavities benefit from a large cavity width of 25-40 mm and vertical battens that do not add flow resistance
  
  
•  with horizontal, perforated battens, the convective moisture transport is reduced compared with vertical battens, especially when the cavity openings do not limit the flow area
  
  
•  cavities with a width < 10 mm have a strongly limited convective moisture transport capability and drying times can be very long
  
  
•  season, façade color, façade orientation, cavity height, and detailing at the cavity openings are all factors that influence the potential convective moisture transport
  

Moisture exchange and convective moisture transport
With wet material surfaces against the cavity, the calculated moisture exchange [g/m2∙day] varies widely. Small cavity width, north orientation, light façade color, and horizontal battens negatively affect the moisture exchange. In this drying phase, the moisture exchange:

•  is approximately 30 times larger at 40 mm cavity width compared to 5 mm (south orientation)
  
  
•  is reduced to about a quarter with north orientation instead of south orientation
  
  
•  is reduced to about a third if the color is light instead of dark (south orientation)
  
  
•  is reduced to less than half with horizontal battens instead of vertical
  
  1. Air exchange over a long period
     The average air exchange in the experimental walls' cavities during the period October to February could be estimated to:
     
     •  230-310 exchanges/hour with vertical battens
       
       
     •  75-100 exchanges/hour with horizontal battens Lindab
       
       
     •  95-130 exchanges/hour with horizontal battens Europrofil