I'm renovating the bedroom and have opened up two doors to the attic space. The door opening is about 170x60cm.
Anyway, I put together two door frames made of 75x45 lumber with two crosspieces. The idea was to cover these with masonite and then wallpaper them. When I built them, there were no problems; they were straight and nice and fit perfectly. But now they've been sitting for 3-4 weeks, and now they're warped... I thought I was being smart by letting the wood sit for over a week before building the doors to avoid issues like this.
So, now I'm back to square one... Can anyone give some good advice on how I should proceed to succeed? Use molding instead of regular lumber? What dimensions?
Anyway, I put together two door frames made of 75x45 lumber with two crosspieces. The idea was to cover these with masonite and then wallpaper them. When I built them, there were no problems; they were straight and nice and fit perfectly. But now they've been sitting for 3-4 weeks, and now they're warped... I thought I was being smart by letting the wood sit for over a week before building the doors to avoid issues like this.
So, now I'm back to square one... Can anyone give some good advice on how I should proceed to succeed? Use molding instead of regular lumber? What dimensions?
First and foremost, you should not use homogenous wood for the framework. The doors will immediately warp because the wood twists and turns due to different temperatures around the doors. The next mistake is not moisture-proofing the door leaf. The third mistake is not making the leaf moment-resistant in the corners by using the wrong material on the inside towards the attic. Instead, do the following.
Buy new studs, preferably 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They do not need to be mitered in the corners or half-lapped or mortised together. They can fit snugly between the outer edges, and you should ideally choose the longest side as the shortest measure. In other words, let the short studs reach out to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs are 2 times the thickness of the stud shorter.
Then rip the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side to 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before ripping on both. Then take each (pair) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will end up at one end on one and the other at the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so that the sawn side is outward and the planed side inward against the sawn side of the other paired stud. Glue and screw them together. (This method is called turnover gluing with inversion.) Now the wood can twist, but the twisting is hindered by the grain counteracting each other, and the glued stud will remain straight.
Then cut the dimensions of the door leaf from a 12 mm K-plywood sheet. Turn the best side down (should be inward towards the attic) and lay out the frame wood on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with clamps and screw from the other side with vfz screws, preferably FH 40x4. The plywood is already turnover glued through crossed veneer directions and therefore retains stiffness parallel to the sheet's plane and, in combination with the turnover glued frame, also retains shape perpendicular to the sheet's plane.
P.S. If you want a really form-stiff door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-ply with regular 15 mm cross veneer, which is completely flat from manufacturing. It costs a bit more and weighs a bit more, but is much better. D.S
Then screw a couple of sturdy screws 'at an angle' (approx. 45 degrees) in the corners. Preferably FH 120x6 vfz, making sure the heads are inside the frame's outer edge.
Fill the frame with insulating material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) to the frame. Cover the inside with the desired sheet material, but no thinner than 4 mm hard fiberboard.
Hinges and closing fittings.
In this way, I have built industrial doors for outdoor use, including for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they still hold unless they've been run over by a forklift
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The Builder
Buy new studs, preferably 45x70. Cut them to length for the outer dimensions of the door leaf. They do not need to be mitered in the corners or half-lapped or mortised together. They can fit snugly between the outer edges, and you should ideally choose the longest side as the shortest measure. In other words, let the short studs reach out to the edges of the long sides so that the long side studs are 2 times the thickness of the stud shorter.
Then rip the studs lengthwise on the 70 mm side to 2 pieces of 34x45 (34+34=68 and 2 mm for the thickness of the saw blade). Be careful to number the pieces in pairs and mark which is the same end before ripping on both. Then take each (pair) stud and turn one of them so that the end marking will end up at one end on one and the other at the other end on the combined 45x68. Then turn one 180 degrees so that the sawn side is outward and the planed side inward against the sawn side of the other paired stud. Glue and screw them together. (This method is called turnover gluing with inversion.) Now the wood can twist, but the twisting is hindered by the grain counteracting each other, and the glued stud will remain straight.
Then cut the dimensions of the door leaf from a 12 mm K-plywood sheet. Turn the best side down (should be inward towards the attic) and lay out the frame wood on it with glue on the studs. Clamp with clamps and screw from the other side with vfz screws, preferably FH 40x4. The plywood is already turnover glued through crossed veneer directions and therefore retains stiffness parallel to the sheet's plane and, in combination with the turnover glued frame, also retains shape perpendicular to the sheet's plane.
P.S. If you want a really form-stiff door leaf, you can replace 12 mm K-ply with regular 15 mm cross veneer, which is completely flat from manufacturing. It costs a bit more and weighs a bit more, but is much better. D.S
Then screw a couple of sturdy screws 'at an angle' (approx. 45 degrees) in the corners. Preferably FH 120x6 vfz, making sure the heads are inside the frame's outer edge.
Fill the frame with insulating material. Attach a UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier) to the frame. Cover the inside with the desired sheet material, but no thinner than 4 mm hard fiberboard.
Hinges and closing fittings.
In this way, I have built industrial doors for outdoor use, including for Felix in Eslöv many years ago, and as far as I know, they still hold unless they've been run over by a forklift
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The Builder
The builder: By golly, I keep finding one excellent post after another from your page!
Coincidentally, I'm going to make a door myself (sometime soon... just need to finish 999 other projects) and this was exactly what I was going to ask about.
Your posts significantly raise the quality of the forum!
Coincidentally, I'm going to make a door myself (sometime soon... just need to finish 999 other projects) and this was exactly what I was going to ask about.
Your posts significantly raise the quality of the forum!
I also have to say, as a reader of the forum, that I am really impressed by how Byggaren shares his wisdom and experience.
Not only are there long explanations, sufficiently instructive and pedagogical for even us regular folks to follow, but there are many as well. And it is backed up with (as it seems at least, unfortunately, I am not competent enough to assess it myself ) really thorough knowledge in most things related to building knowledge.
Does Byggaren not have a job to attend to, and just sits in front of the computer scanning the forum for questions he can answer? People like this in a forum are worth their weight in gold.
Hurrah for Byggaren!
Not only are there long explanations, sufficiently instructive and pedagogical for even us regular folks to follow, but there are many as well. And it is backed up with (as it seems at least, unfortunately, I am not competent enough to assess it myself
) really thorough knowledge in most things related to building knowledge. Does Byggaren not have a job to attend to, and just sits in front of the computer scanning the forum for questions he can answer? People like this in a forum are worth their weight in gold.
Hurrah for Byggaren!
No. Byggaren currently has no job to manage. I have been retired for almost 6 years now. I do some small jobs now and then to keep up-to-date after a professional life as a builder for >40 years, everything from lottery kiosks to nuclear power plants. I also do a lot of carpentry for my own and others' needs. It's nice to be able to take it at my own pace and avoid stress. Moreover... you know that thing about first instructing others on how it should be done and then still having to do it yourselfolni65 said:I must also say, as a reader of the forum, that I am really impressed with how Byggaren shares his wisdom and experience.
Not only does he provide long explanations, sufficiently instructive and pedagogical for even us regular people to follow, but there are many of them too. And it is backed up with (as it seems anyway, I'm unfortunately not competent enough to judge it myself
Hooray for Byggaren!
I escape that now + I no longer have the responsibility for X number of employees. I only have myself to consider, besides my family and two cats. Therefore, I have a little time to spend here._______________
Byggaren
Just for testing, I have sawed and glued a number of studs according to this method. And I am extremely pleased with the result!! They have all held their shape incredibly well even though they have probably dried a bit since November when I glued them together. Incredibly pleasant method that I will use more in the future.imported_Byggaren said:
Oh, what a perfect instruction! Do you think it's possible to manage even if you're completely new to carpentry, if you make sure to have plenty of time and such...?
What glue should you use, regular wood glue or? And if you're thinking of regular interior doors, for bedrooms and such, you can probably skip the UV-stabilizing plastic film, right? Does this method work if you want doors that are 270 cm high too?
By the way, is it more complicated to make a door for a bathroom than regular doors? There's a locking mechanism involved, for example... Is it tricky to get that right, do you think?
What glue should you use, regular wood glue or? And if you're thinking of regular interior doors, for bedrooms and such, you can probably skip the UV-stabilizing plastic film, right? Does this method work if you want doors that are 270 cm high too?
By the way, is it more complicated to make a door for a bathroom than regular doors? There's a locking mechanism involved, for example... Is it tricky to get that right, do you think?
If you don't try and practice, you will never be able to handle it.Frugan said:
There is no great difficulty in splitting a piece of wood with a regular handheld electric circular saw. Just make sure the blade is sharp (otherwise, the saw cut will splinter, as it also can if you drive the saw blade forward with too much pressure) and preferably use a beveled tooth blade and make sure the guide follows the edge as it should so that both halves are equally wide/thick.
If you have access to a (machine) planer, you can afterwards run both pieces with the sawn side facing up to the cutter to make them evenly thick/wide.
It doesn't really matter how tall the door is to be made, as long as it doesn't exceed >4.5 m. And making a toilet room door is not more complicated than making an interior door. In both, you must place a reinforcement block where the notch for the lock case will be made.
On the other hand, old-fashioned panel doors are complicated to make because they require a hand router or a vertical router with profile steel and groove cutter with counter cutter steel. You don't want them to look like a fiberboard or plank in the door leaf.
For planed wood, always use regular high-quality wood glue. For unplaned wood and joint tenons, use PU glue.
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Byggaren
What do you think about also doing "halvt i halvt" when you're already at it? - I mean, you have a golden opportunity when you're going to split and glue anyway. Then it's just a matter of shifting the gluing by a rule width, and you get "halvt i halvt" automatically. Is it a bad idea? And if so, why?
I don't quite understand what you mean by shifting by a rule width. Can you show with a sketch?mattiasp said:
The purpose of cleaving, upheaving, and gluing the same piece is that the stresses present in the wood become equal when the parts are taken from the same piece. This is not the case if you take two different pieces and do the same thing, so not straight in the long run.
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Byggaren
Fantastic tips! Thanks!
A few questions though, if I want to decorate one side with some wood after the entire foundation must I do the same on the other side?
K-plywood? What does the K stand for?
UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier), is it the same as the sauna foil uv black you can buy at places like byggmax, or something completely different?
Last novice question:
I would like to use järnvitriol on my stable door, is it something that can be recommended or might it not provide enough protection?
/U
A few questions though, if I want to decorate one side with some wood after the entire foundation must I do the same on the other side?
K-plywood? What does the K stand for?
UV-stabilized plastic film (vapor barrier), is it the same as the sauna foil uv black you can buy at places like byggmax, or something completely different?
Last novice question:
I would like to use järnvitriol on my stable door, is it something that can be recommended or might it not provide enough protection?
/U
No. Not if you just screw it on without glue.Pastejja said:
K=constructionPastejja said:
No. It's something else. UV stands for ultraviolet, a wavelength that breaks down plastic and makes it brittle. Regular UV-stabilized plastic for the inside of exterior walls is usually clear or slightly blue-tinted. Look for the type approval mark, a fork.Pastejja said:
It holds up well and can be recommended. The only disadvantage is the color which turns silver-gray over time.Pastejja said:
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Builder
I have read and considered this thorough post and am likely planning to build a door for the shed's storage section according to the builder's specs. However, I'm pondering a bit about how to make a proper frame and how to handle the hinges, as well as how much space is needed between the door and frame for it to open properly.