What should I do with the walls?

[pelpet]

My suggestions are to fasten the studs more securely, a regular 90mm screw angled down into the horizontal stud should work. Run electricity. Take the opportunity to install recessed electricity and possibly network in the room on the other side of the wall while the wall is open. And maybe water to the fridge/freezer or a tap. Insulate between the studs to reduce sound transmission.

Keep the existing panels, but secure them with wood panel screws in all studs. They are currently held by only a few nails. Removing or cutting that nail is faster than cutting OSB. Install regular drywall. That's standard. The idea that OSB under drywall would warp is doubtful, as construction with OSB under drywall is common. Offset joints are beneficial. The room becoming 2-3 cm smaller should be acceptable.

 

[nino]

Remove the masonite, screw the studs with 90 screws of the spax type, run the electrical and everything else that needs to be done, insulate with a 45mm insulation board. There is no problem transporting drywall, put them on a trailer and drive home, it's important to carry them upright, don’t carry them lying down as they will break immediately. One person can carry in a 120x250x1.3 sheet, although it gets a little heavy after 5-6 sheets, the weight is less than 30kg each.

I would place OSB/plywood/chipboard (one of them) behind and use a 13mm drywall, having grown up in a single drywall house and it had holes everywhere...

Since you seem to be renovating quite a bit, I would invest in a set of Hole in One magnet finders for hole-cutting, possibly you can drill with an 80-90 mm hole saw in the OSB board to allow for some play, but with the right routing tool in the drywall, of course.

I would probably lay OSB horizontally and the drywall vertically, I would likely use 90cm drywall.

Screw the backing board with 25mm chipboard screws or whatever it is with a countersunk head, and the drywall with 25mm drywall screws where you can't screw into a stud, and 40mm where you hit the stud (in bathrooms the drywall should always be screwed into the stud, not just into the board behind).

 

[snowjim]

My suggestions are to secure the studs better, a regular 90mm screw angled down into the horizontal stud should work. Run the electricity. Take the opportunity to fix recessed electricity and possibly network in the room on the other side of the wall when the wall is already open. And maybe water to the fridge/freezer or some outdoor tap. Insulate between the studs to reduce sound transmission.

Sounds good, how is it, for soundproofing, should you choose boards that create a small free margin? When I installed acoustic panels on the walls, it was mentioned to have at least 2-3 cm from the wall to get a good effect.

Keep the existing boards, but screw them with wood board screws into all the studs. Now they're only held with a few nails. Pulling out or snipping those nails is faster than cutting OSB. Put standard gypsum on. That's standard. That OSB under gypsum would warp is doubtful, people build with OSB under gypsum all the time. Offset joints are good. That the room becomes 2-3 cm smaller should be acceptable.

Well, the masonite boards that are there today don't feel great to keep, they've taken quite a bit of damage in some places when we removed tiles. Additionally, we get the impression that they smell quite a bit like old kitchen. Furthermore, they are not even, there can be several millimeters of difference between the boards at the joints.

This is difficult, the craftsman I've spoken with is self-employed and has been at it for many years, he seems generally well-liked. So when he says the OSB boards might warp, it's hard not to take it seriously. How is it really? Are these also considered living materials like plywood? i.e., should you install them with certain margins?

When you talk about gypsum, do you mean 6 mm gypsum?

Offsetting is good but don't you think it would be better to install the gypsum and backing behind in different directions (vertical and horizontal)?

 

[pelpet]

I would think the craftsman is wrong, I have never heard of OSB behind drywall being a problem. But if you go with the craftsman's recommendation, use double drywall anyway.

I mean 13mm drywall. 6mm = renovation gypsum.

 

[snowjim]

Remove the masonite, attach the studs with type 90 Spax screws, run electrical and everything else that needs to be run, insulate with a 45mm insulation board.

I have to measure the depth, but there should be a little margin for optimal light insulation, I suppose? Is there any specific insulation one should choose? There are so many options! Here, I assume it matters less how healthy they are since they'll be inside the wall, so fiberglass may be okay?

There are absolutely no problems transporting drywall sheets, place them on a trailer and drive home, it's important to carry them vertically, don't carry them horizontally, or they'll break immediately. You can carry a 120x250x1.3 sheet by yourself, although it gets a bit heavy after 5-6 sheets (approximately weight is less than 30kg each).

Depending on whether I decide to use OSB board or not, the plan is to use 6 mm with OSB or 13 without OSB. This is to avoid building out too much in the kitchen (where the margins are already at the limit according to IKEA). If it’s OSB with 6 mm drywall, I'm a bit worried about how easily they break, but maybe it's not a problem considering they have a fiberglass-reinforced core.

I would place OSB/plywood/particle board (one of them, that is) behind and use a 13mm drywall, I grew up in a house with simple drywall, and there were holes everywhere...

Is that so? I also grew up with drywall walls to a large extent and never had holes, actually. When we lived in an apartment, you had to really learn what drywall could handle when you wanted to put up TVs, speakers, etc., on the walls. Molly screws were the savior, they are both easy to install and easy to remove. However, it's not fun to hit studs, which is hard to know upfront. Now, when we moved to the house, we wanted to mount a 65" TV on the wall, of course. I'm too cautious to mount it on single drywall, which we apparently have on one half of the living room wall. Luckily, I found a stud to screw into, plus half of the area under the TV bracket was masonite, which holds much better than the drywall. Then, of course, a bunch of molly screws where there was only drywall. Fortunately, there was an error during the installation as the level on the TV mount was incorrect. When I checked with the Hultafors plumb bob, it was clear I had to rethink. Moving a molly screw a few centimeters is not an option, as we know, but luckily I could choose another hole in the TV bracket and get away from previous holes with good margin. I think it ended up being 8 screws in the end, but now it's secure! =D

In a kitchen, honestly, I don't think you need more than double drywall for other things besides kitchen cabinets, which you will have to stud up for anyway. Mounting a 32" TV in double drywall with molly screws is no problem.

That said, it's MUCH nicer with more stable walls than drywall. Now I can screw up heavier things on the parts that have masonite without worrying too much. Sure, when I mounted surround speakers on masonite, I did choose to use molly screws, but those speakers do weigh quite a bit

Since you seem to be renovating quite extensively, I would invest in a hole-in-one magnet finder for drilling, you might also consider using a 80-90 mm hole saw in the OSB board to get some wiggle room, but with the right drywall drill, of course.

Aha, thanks for the tip! That sounds like a good investment! I've also considered super-strong magnets to find screws under wall coverings, such as when you want to mount something on the wall.

I would probably lay down OSB and standing drywall, I would likely use 90cm drywall.

The underlying board you screw with particle board screws 25mm (or whatever they are) with a countersunk head, the drywall with drywall screws, 25mm where you can't screw into a stud, and 40 mm where you hit the stud (in bathrooms, the drywall should always be screwed into the stud, not just into the board behind).

Aha, noted, I just have to decide if I'm going to do the extra work with OSB or go with 13mm drywall.

Looking at tables for how much weight double drywall can handle, the values are quite high, and using molly screws is not difficult unless you hit studs by accident. In one way, OSB feels a bit superfluous, even though I understand it's much easier to mount things there, but one might ask how often you actually do this?

Not an easy choice, especially when the craftsman advises against using OSB as it might warp.

 

[snowjim]

I would think that the craftsman is wrong, I have never heard that OSB behind gypsum is a problem. But if you go on the craftsman's recommendation, go with double gypsum anyway.

I mean 13mm gypsum. 6mm = renovation gypsum.

Hehe yes, I am unsure, I know very little about this but I understand that about 98% on the byggahus forum advocates OSB or plywood behind the gypsum. But it sounds so simple to just put up 13 mm gypsum and logically it doesn't feel like a problem, but OSB certainly has its advantages!

6 mm gypsum, which is also called renovation gypsum, is, as I understand it, reinforced in the core with fiberglass to withstand handling, I only use this if I also use OSB or similar behind. This would then build on 11 + 6 = 17 mm compared to today's which is 12 mm. If I were to lay double gypsum, it would be 11+13 = 24 mm, i.e. double what it is today, which feels a bit overkill.

As I mentioned earlier, I have seen those who put up 6 mm gypsum in 2 layers, i.e. 12 mm total and then alternated the seams. Not entirely sure why they did so, but I suspect to minimize movement in the wall and avoid cracks because the wall was then painted and not wallpapered.

 

[nino]

Do you live in an inconvenient location, or have a long staircase up to the house, or is the kitchen on the second floor with a very narrow staircase?
I absolutely don't buy the idea of using just single-layer drywall, sure molly bolts work but they leave significant holes...

A 6mm board is about 18 SEK more expensive than a 13mm one, and when you drive a drywall screw, there will be a small bulge around the head on the 6mm.
There are only negative things about 6mm.

You can do as you wish, of course, but I would never build without OSB + 13mm drywall. I've built 3 apartments for myself (2 two-room and 1 three-room) and installed it in all of them, and after about 10 years, nothing has happened to the walls.

 

[Stefan N]

OSB+13mm gypsum, that is what works. Some special with double 6mm honestly sounds really dumb and single gypsum we shouldn't even talk about.

 

[snowjim]

Do you live in a difficult location, or is there a long staircase up to the house, or is the kitchen on the second floor with a very narrow staircase? I definitely don't buy that you should use just single plasterboard, sure molly works but it leaves significant holes...

A 6mm board is about 18:- more expensive than a 13mm, when you drive in a drywall screw, there's a small bump around the head on 6mm.
There are only negative things with 6mm

You do as you please of course, but I would never build without OSB + 13mm plasterboard. I have built 3 apartments for myself (two 2-room and one 3-room) and did it that way in all of them, and after about 10 years nothing has happened with the walls.

The kitchen is quite well-situated; from the front, you enter the hall via a very wide staircase with maybe 6-7 steps, then proceed into the kitchen from the hall. On the backside, where I will likely bring them in, there's a smaller staircase with 3-4 steps to go directly into the kitchen.

Of course, I will not use just 6 mm plasterboard; if I'm going with only plasterboard, it will be 13 mm, otherwise, I'm not sure if I'll go with two layers of 6 mm or one layer of 13 mm. I suspect the former is better in terms of soundproofing and joints.

Yes, there are quite large holes left by molly screws, but they are not so difficult to fill in; I assume house fixer is the best solution there since it doesn't shrink like filler does.

I think that if you use OSB and 6 mm plasterboard, you don't actually fasten anything in the plasterboard; instead, you fasten it in the 11 mm OSB and possibly a stud if there's an opportunity. The plasterboard is mostly there to create a smooth surface that can be puttied without movement and, of course, provides a little fire protection. I'm having a hard time imagining how it would be to attach double plasterboard (13 mm) to OSB 11 mm, you will be building out the walls quite a bit and there's a risk it could negatively impact the kitchen unfortunately (mainly thinking about the new kitchen fittings which are planned according to certain measurements).

I have never used drywall screws in plasterboard, but I have used regular screws with plugs for smaller items which has actually worked well. I have never noted any bump around the holes, but a drywall screw directly in plasterboard can certainly create a bump, one would just wonder how to get plasterboard completely flat then?

Good input that there have been no problems for 10 years with OSB behind! I saw somewhere that OSB should have a 3 mm margin, making a total margin of 6 mm that will be visible at the joints with the studs.

 

[snowjim]

OSB+13mm plasterboard, that's what works. Any special with double 6mm sounds quite frankly really dumb, and we shouldn't even talk about single plasterboard.

Single plasterboard is 6mm plasterboard and is also called renovation plasterboard if I understand correctly? The ones I have looked at seem to have a reinforced core so they don't break during handling. After watching some videos and reading some articles, it's common to use double layers of plasterboard for soundproofing. In addition to adding extra dense filling in the walls, you place double plasterboards where the first layer should not touch the wall or floor; instead, you use some type of elastic sealant there. The last layer is screwed on as usual. There are probably lots of variations of this, but it seems like 6mm plasterboard is used for this, at least in the premises where I work. No idea if it works or if it's purely fictional.

I don't quite understand why OSB + 6mm plasterboard is bad? OSB stabilizes the thin plasterboard while also providing at least some light soundproofing and fire protection. If you're going to screw something, it's the OSB and possibly the frame that you attach to, not the plasterboard. You can more see the plasterboard as a cladding on the outside of the OSB to form a smooth surface and a little fire protection.

 

[Stefan N]

Is it 6mm you want to gain with the renovation gypsum? Because apart from that, there are only disadvantages with that gypsum.
When talking about "single gypsum," it means 13mm.

 

[snowjim]

Are you trying to gain 6mm with the renovation plasterboard? Because apart from that, there are only disadvantages with that plasterboard.
When people talk about "single plasterboard," they mean 13mm.

Aha? I thought double plasterboard was 12-13 mm and that you could achieve that by either buying 13 mm or 2x6 mm.

The thing is, IKEA has been strict about the margin to the wall from the side cabinets being 5 cm or more. After planning the kitchen, we got exactly 5 cm on each side. If we now add OSB and single plasterboard, the total measurement decreases from 370 cm to 346 cm, i.e., 1.2 cm disappears on each side. Additionally, we have doorways here with trim, which means we lose another 1.2 cm, so instead of 5 cm, we get 2.6 cm.

I don't know if this is a big problem, but IKEA seemed quite picky about it, so I suspect it might not turn out well? In the old cabinet, these margins were much larger, probably 10 cm.

If I choose to use only 13 mm plasterboard, it will be more or less as it was already planned, but single plasterboard doesn't sound fun. Double plasterboard becomes 26 mm, which is also difficult to fit in. Unfortunately, we didn't think about this when we planned the kitchen . Isn't there any material that has plasterboard properties but is stronger and can be 10-13 mm?

 

[richardtenggren]

You might need to review your calculation, 240 mm extra discs? We have a little less than 50 mm between the drawer front and the wall, I think we have 40 mm, though I planned our kitchen without Ikea.
The problem is if you have a radiator, trim/molding, or something else that might interfere when the drawer opens. So it's probably fine to go for it if it otherwise works

 

[nino]

50mm I guess is provided by IKEA so there are absolutely no problems.
I think 50mm in total should be enough (that is, 25mm on each side), but of course, it depends if you have thick trims and doors/drawers nearby.

 

[snowjim]

You might want to review your calculation, 240 mm extra discs?

Aha? Which calculation is wrong? It's 26 mm that disappear on each side, which leaves us with a 24 mm margin.

We have a little less than 50 mm between the drawer front and the wall, I think we have 40 mm, however, I planned our kitchen without Ikea.
The problem is if you have a radiator, trim/molding, or something else that may hit when the drawer opens. So it's probably fine to go ahead if it works otherwise.

I suspect it's the cabinet doors that will hit trim/molding/wall. If you only had drawers, you could probably shrink it, but with doors, 5 cm is likely required so that handles or similar don't hit. Sure, you could install some kind of stop or similar, but that's not particularly nice.