Before I talk about our problem, I just want to say that the construction/solution was devised by our builder, whom we hired as the general contractor for the renovation of the entire apartment. So I cannot answer why it was done in a certain way. I can only state the problem below and seek help in solving it. And sure, my builder will surely come up with a suggestion, but since he already made a mistake, I want to get more opinions from you on the forum. Simply a second opinion.
In short, here's the situation.
We chose to lower the ceiling in the apartment to install spotlights, ceiling speakers, etc. Therefore, a framework construction consisting of steel joists was built. In our example, to make it easier, we assume that the construction with the joists in the ceiling is correct and properly executed. I have no indication that this is not the case. The problem concerns the material the interior ceiling was built with.
Here, the contractor chose to use MDF boards that he screwed into the joists. Imagine a ceiling where you put up plasterboards, but in my case, MDF boards were used. Why, as I said, I don't know and it's not worth going into in my case. I am fully aware that it was not a correct choice at the time of writing, so we therefore leave this out of the discussion.
On the MDF, strips and filler were then applied, just like on a plaster ceiling. Everything looked fine until about 4 weeks later, when the ceiling cracked at every little seam. This is partly because MDF is living and moves more than, for example, plaster, but also because the moisture was too high in the boards when they were installed, and when they dried, they shrank, which led to both the joint cracking and the strips coming loose, thus creating cracks everywhere along the seams of the boards.
To tear down the entire ceiling and use plaster instead is something I want to avoid as much as possible, and an option we can set aside for now. Instead, we will focus on the alternative of placing plaster outside the MDF boards. This is where my questions come in.
The proposal I received is to put up plasterboards on top of the MDF boards and then fill and paint as usual. But some things I would need help with.
1.) The proposal was to attach the plasterboards to the MDF boards by screwing them in. Naturally, you place the plaster so that the plasterboard joints do not align with the MDF joints. But what I wonder is, if the MDF boards move depending on climate, season, etc., won't the plasterboards then also move since they are screwed into the MDF boards? And thereby, wouldn't it then crack at the seams between the plasterboards as well?
2.) Could one try to put up a few more joists and screw the plasterboards through the MDF and into the joists? Or would it just become a mess as the MDF moves under the plasterboards? Would this even work? And since you can't put new joists everywhere, this would only be feasible in some isolated spots, and the question is whether it would help at all since they would still need to be screwed into the MDF in certain spots?
3.) I have been recommended 6mm plaster, but someone mentioned that 13mm would hold better and prevent cracks between the plasterboards more. Do you think that's true? Assuming weight isn't an issue, would 13mm be preferable over 6mm plasterboards on top of the MDF?
4.) I've heard that sometimes interior ceilings are built with a wood-based board inside plasterboards, for instance, when you need to attach heavy things to the ceiling. You can then screw through the plaster into the wood-based board to get a grip. Does anyone know anything about this method? For example, is it common with cracks? Do you screw the plaster directly into the MDF or into their own joists? Does anyone know how to go about it, as this would then be essentially the same solution to save my interior ceiling.
5.) Any suggestions on how I can make the boards move less when they are affected by moisture? Could they be treated? Painted with oil paint? Lacquered? And thus maintain the same moisture level, and they wouldn't swell or shrink? Any other suggestions? I mean, would it help if I put twice as many screws into the boards? Glue? Dowel? What can be done? Keep in mind that the boards are already in the ceiling, so a suggestion that doesn't involve taking them down would be preferred.
6.) Has anyone even heard of a ceiling in MDF? Is it common? Has anyone else made a ceiling in MDF with successful results?
SORRY FOR SO MANY QUESTIONS, but thought if someone is knowledgeable in the area, I would take the opportunity to get many answers at once.
Then I also hope that this can contribute to information in the area because there is basically nothing when you search for this online. I find absolutely no one asking or discussing this, so it's hard to find good information. And since MDF is so popular these days, perhaps this thread can help someone else from making a similar mistake.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!
In short, here's the situation.
We chose to lower the ceiling in the apartment to install spotlights, ceiling speakers, etc. Therefore, a framework construction consisting of steel joists was built. In our example, to make it easier, we assume that the construction with the joists in the ceiling is correct and properly executed. I have no indication that this is not the case. The problem concerns the material the interior ceiling was built with.
Here, the contractor chose to use MDF boards that he screwed into the joists. Imagine a ceiling where you put up plasterboards, but in my case, MDF boards were used. Why, as I said, I don't know and it's not worth going into in my case. I am fully aware that it was not a correct choice at the time of writing, so we therefore leave this out of the discussion.
On the MDF, strips and filler were then applied, just like on a plaster ceiling. Everything looked fine until about 4 weeks later, when the ceiling cracked at every little seam. This is partly because MDF is living and moves more than, for example, plaster, but also because the moisture was too high in the boards when they were installed, and when they dried, they shrank, which led to both the joint cracking and the strips coming loose, thus creating cracks everywhere along the seams of the boards.
To tear down the entire ceiling and use plaster instead is something I want to avoid as much as possible, and an option we can set aside for now. Instead, we will focus on the alternative of placing plaster outside the MDF boards. This is where my questions come in.
The proposal I received is to put up plasterboards on top of the MDF boards and then fill and paint as usual. But some things I would need help with.
1.) The proposal was to attach the plasterboards to the MDF boards by screwing them in. Naturally, you place the plaster so that the plasterboard joints do not align with the MDF joints. But what I wonder is, if the MDF boards move depending on climate, season, etc., won't the plasterboards then also move since they are screwed into the MDF boards? And thereby, wouldn't it then crack at the seams between the plasterboards as well?
2.) Could one try to put up a few more joists and screw the plasterboards through the MDF and into the joists? Or would it just become a mess as the MDF moves under the plasterboards? Would this even work? And since you can't put new joists everywhere, this would only be feasible in some isolated spots, and the question is whether it would help at all since they would still need to be screwed into the MDF in certain spots?
3.) I have been recommended 6mm plaster, but someone mentioned that 13mm would hold better and prevent cracks between the plasterboards more. Do you think that's true? Assuming weight isn't an issue, would 13mm be preferable over 6mm plasterboards on top of the MDF?
4.) I've heard that sometimes interior ceilings are built with a wood-based board inside plasterboards, for instance, when you need to attach heavy things to the ceiling. You can then screw through the plaster into the wood-based board to get a grip. Does anyone know anything about this method? For example, is it common with cracks? Do you screw the plaster directly into the MDF or into their own joists? Does anyone know how to go about it, as this would then be essentially the same solution to save my interior ceiling.
5.) Any suggestions on how I can make the boards move less when they are affected by moisture? Could they be treated? Painted with oil paint? Lacquered? And thus maintain the same moisture level, and they wouldn't swell or shrink? Any other suggestions? I mean, would it help if I put twice as many screws into the boards? Glue? Dowel? What can be done? Keep in mind that the boards are already in the ceiling, so a suggestion that doesn't involve taking them down would be preferred.
6.) Has anyone even heard of a ceiling in MDF? Is it common? Has anyone else made a ceiling in MDF with successful results?
SORRY FOR SO MANY QUESTIONS, but thought if someone is knowledgeable in the area, I would take the opportunity to get many answers at once.
Then I also hope that this can contribute to information in the area because there is basically nothing when you search for this online. I find absolutely no one asking or discussing this, so it's hard to find good information. And since MDF is so popular these days, perhaps this thread can help someone else from making a similar mistake.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!
Why did they put MDF on the ceiling?
Both more expensive, worse result...
Installing 13mm plasterboard and screwing into MDF should work well. I've built walls with OSB and plasterboard and then screwed with screws that only fasten into the OSB.
Both more expensive, worse result...
Installing 13mm plasterboard and screwing into MDF should work well. I've built walls with OSB and plasterboard and then screwed with screws that only fasten into the OSB.
How do you think MDF and OSB compare to each other when it comes to moisture impact? Do you think MDF is more sensitive and expands/contracts more than an OSB board would in the same environment?
And as mentioned, we don't need to go into the question of "why?" Unfortunately, it doesn't matter at this stage, as the mistake has already been made by them. They probably had their reasons, but this was not something they shared with me, and I simply trusted them since it's a big company with good references.
And as mentioned, we don't need to go into the question of "why?" Unfortunately, it doesn't matter at this stage, as the mistake has already been made by them. They probably had their reasons, but this was not something they shared with me, and I simply trusted them since it's a big company with good references.
you should preferably be aware of the steel profile and ideally screw into it. because the boards are attached to dead material. but your plasterboard may become bad again. because mdf is like sponges. you can't do anything to make the mdf move less now.
SBH:
Since you shouldn't place the seams between the MDF directly above the seams between the plasterboard, it becomes tricky in some areas to drive the plasterboard through the MDF and into a stud. Sure, in some areas I can add new supplementary studs that I could attach them to. But you mean that if I screw the plasterboard only into the MDF, I will still have problems with cracks when the MDF moves underneath? And then, what, try as much as possible to attach the plasterboard to the studs, but WITHOUT having the seams directly above each other. Something like that, right?
Since you shouldn't place the seams between the MDF directly above the seams between the plasterboard, it becomes tricky in some areas to drive the plasterboard through the MDF and into a stud. Sure, in some areas I can add new supplementary studs that I could attach them to. But you mean that if I screw the plasterboard only into the MDF, I will still have problems with cracks when the MDF moves underneath? And then, what, try as much as possible to attach the plasterboard to the studs, but WITHOUT having the seams directly above each other. Something like that, right?
S
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
· Dalarna
· 5 543 posts
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
- Dalarna
- 5,543 posts
Unfortunately, the craftsman seems to be an amateur since no professional would putty and paint MDF and think it will turn out well.
The good news is that you can definitely apply plaster to the MDF and then plaster, putty with mesh, and then paint.
I wouldn't be worried about cracking. What I would be concerned about instead is that MDF is a very heavy material, and plasterboard is not light either. I would be worried about the fastening to and from the metal studs.
The good news is that you can definitely apply plaster to the MDF and then plaster, putty with mesh, and then paint.
I wouldn't be worried about cracking. What I would be concerned about instead is that MDF is a very heavy material, and plasterboard is not light either. I would be worried about the fastening to and from the metal studs.
S
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
· Dalarna
· 5 543 posts
SueCia
Electronics enthusiast
- Dalarna
- 5,543 posts
Painting is a very humid job, so when you paint the plaster, later if you choose to keep the MDF. I would probably run a dehumidifier in the room.
It is indeed a very tricky and untested solution with plaster on top of MDF in the ceiling. But provided that it is not a wet room, I stand by the opinion that cracking in the plaster is a minimal risk.
It is indeed a very tricky and untested solution with plaster on top of MDF in the ceiling. But provided that it is not a wet room, I stand by the opinion that cracking in the plaster is a minimal risk.
Screw down the mdf and plaster instead, redo it, do it right... he probably had a lot of mdf lying around that he wanted to get rid of...
I would use some type of ceiling panels like huntonit symphony in the ceiling where the panels can move without being noticeable since the joints can move slightly without it being apparent. Then you also avoid painting, which means less moisture.