Make your own wood protection / impregnation (Sioo, Organowood, Everwood)

[Christer B]

How are you doing now? Sodium silicate+citric acid.?Concentrations,?
Christer B

 

[Christer B]

Want to contact Bergstinget for advice regarding water glass treatment of wood surfaces. Want to know the concentration of sodium silicate and post-treatment (with what?, citric acid or). Then want to treat with iron vitriol to get a gray color faster.

 

[YWa]

I found this when I realized that Sioo, which I bought at a high price, is basically just an emulsion of potassium silicate. Now I've already treated the deck with Sioo, but the result wasn't as good as hoped with some growth two years after. Instead of buying their product again, I decided to do something myself. Being a chemist, all I need is the time to read up.

Now I found a cheap variant at Bauhaus that I will test. Combimix Vattenstopp (https://www.bauhaus.se/vattenstopp-1l.html?nosto=nosto-searchpage-1) is a mixture of potassium silicate and sodium silicate (15-20%+15-20%) water solution. I will dilute this about 10 times and use it as an aftertreatment. I might also apply some sodium bicarbonate afterward to accelerate the precipitation of SiO2.

 

[sebastianand]

Found this place when I realized that Sioo which I bought expensively is really just an emulsion of potassium silicate. I've already treated the patio with Sioo. But the result wasn't as good as hoped with some growth two years later. Instead of buying their product again, I decided to make something myself. I'm a chemist myself so all that is needed is the time to read up.

Now found a cheap version at Bauhaus that I will test. Combimix vattenstopp ([link]) is a mixture of potassium silicate and sodium silicate (15-20%+15-20%) water solution. I will dilute this about 10 times and use as a post-treatment. I might also add some sodium bicarbonate afterwards to speed up the precipitation of SiO2.

Exciting,

Have you tried the Bauhaus vattenstopp yet?

Do you think it works to use only that solution even for the first treatment?

/Sebastian

 

[YWa]

Exciting,

Have you tried Bauhaus waterstop yet?

Do you think it's possible to use only that solution for the first treatment?

/Sebastian

Yes, I did it just before Easter. About 1:10 dilution with cold water.

I can't guarantee that it works. But I strongly believe in it. If I were to decide for myself today, I would definitely use waterstop. Since it is not an emulsion, it runs off quicker. You might need to apply it a few more times than Sioos suggests. On the other hand, it is both cheap to buy and easy to apply, so it shouldn't be a problem.

At Bauhaus, they had trouble finding it , everyone thought it would be at the paint department, but it is actually out with the cement/mortar . If you want to try it, now you know where to look.

 

[Mekis]

Yes, I did it just before Easter. About 1:10 dilution with cold water.

I can't guarantee that it works. But I strongly believe in it. If I had to decide for myself today, I would definitely go with water stop. Since it's not an emulsion, it flows off faster. You probably need to apply it a couple of times more than Sioo's suggestion. On the other hand, it's both cheap to buy and easy to apply, so it shouldn't be a problem.

At Bauhaus, they had a hard time finding it , everyone thought it should be at the paint department, but in fact, it's out with the cement/mortar . If you want to try it, now you know where to look.

Do you think you can manage with just the 1:10 mixture directly on untreated decking or should you go with a Sioo/Nitor Wood protection first?

You also mentioned sodium bicarbonate above, was that something you added and if so, to what extent?

 

[YWa]

I would have used a less diluted Vattenstopp instead. Maybe 1:1 with water. Total concentration in Vattenstopp is about 30-40%, like OrganoWood wood protection has <20%. So somewhere around 15-20% should be suitable, I believe.

However, it's completely untested, and I take no responsibility if...

I couldn't find any information about Sioo's products regarding concentrations of Na/K-silicate. Another brand on the market, Nitor, also has wood protection in the form of Na/K-silicate. Their first-step product (wood cleaner) contains 5-15% Na-silicate. The second step (wood protector) 5-12% Na/K-silicate.

My guess is that around 15% should probably work

 

[sebastianand]

I would have used a less diluted Vattenstopp instead. Maybe 1:1 with water. Total concentration in Vattenstopp is about 30-40%, like OrganoWood wood protection has <20%. So somewhere around 15-20% one should be, I believe.

However, this is completely unproven and I take no responsibility if ...

I didn't find any information about Sioos products regarding concentrations of Na/K-silicate. Another brand on the market, Nitor, also has wood protection in the form of Na/K-silicate. Their first step product (wood cleaner) contains 5-15% Na-silicate. The 2nd step (wood protector) 5-12% Na/K-silicate.

My guess is that around 15% should probably work

Found the safety data sheets for sioo step 1 and 2

http://www.silvatimber.co.uk/media/pdfs/Safety Data Sheet - Sioox Surface Protector - HB 2016.pdf

http://www.silvatimber.co.uk/media/pdfs/Safety Data Sheet - Sioox Wood Protector - HB 2016-CH.pdf

Comparing the cost between bauhaus vattenstopp and sioo:

Sioo
5l cost about 1260kr
covers about 20m2
cost 1m2 about 63kr

Vattenstopp
5l cost about 320kr
covers about 40m2 (dilute to about 1:1 with water)
cost 1m2 about 8kr

also found weber's variant of vattenstopp
https://www.beijerbygg.se/webapp/wc...6r/vattenstopp-ytf%F6rst%E4rkare-5l-900006883

YWa, how did you come to the 1:10 mixture for the surface protection? According to sioos surface layer safety data sheet it is a mixture of this

1 Diluted emulsion of silanes and siloxanes 6-16%
2 Water 84-94%

Will try this over the weekend

 

[YWa]

Sioo is a bit secretive so you don't get much information. You can see that Nitor, for example, only has a couple of percent Na/K-silicate in the final step. The rest is probably oil or emulsion agent (I haven't thought much about how it works since I don't have the ambition to create something similar). However, the whole concept is based on the idea that silicate would convert to silicon polymer (SiO2 in long chains), which happens spontaneously when the pH drops due to CO2 in the air. Applying diluted silicate adds more silicate to the wood and kills mold/algae (in the same way as lye). I haven't measured the pH of 1:10 diluted Vattenstop but I think it's around 9-10. I believe (again ) that it's sufficient. If it doesn't turn out well, I'll apply it again before winter with a slightly stronger mixture.

 

[Mekis]

Will try this over the weekend

Good luck and keep us updated

 

[tojo73]

Hi YWa, great tips.

What do you think about this product to accelerate precipitation?

https://www.bauhaus.se/ph-sankare-nitor-for-pool-3kg.html#full-description

It's been a long time since I studied chemistry, so Sodium bisulfate might not have the desired effect

From what I understand, precipitation starts at pH < 9, according to the safety data sheet, Vattenstopp is at 10.5.

 

[Mekis]

Found the safety data sheets for sioo step 1 and 2

[link]

[link]

Comparing the cost between bauhaus vattenstopp and sioo:

Sioo
5l cost approx. 1260kr
covers approx. 20m2
cost 1m2 approx. 63kr

Vattenstoppp
5l cost approx. 320kr
covers approx. 40m2 (dilute to approx. 1:1 with water)
cost 1m2 approx. 8kr

also found weber’s version of vattenstopp
[link] src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite17" alt=":p" title="Räcker ut tungan :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />rivat/byggmaterial/bindemedel-bruk/betong-tillsatser-tillbeh%F6r/vattenstopp-ytf%F6rst%E4rkare-5l-900006883


YWa, how did you come to the 1:10 mixture for the surface protection? According to sioo’s surface layer safety data sheet, it is a mix of this

1 Diluted emulsion of silanes and siloxanes 6-16%
2 Water 84-94%


I’m going to try this over the weekend

How did it go, did you treat your terrace?

 

[sebastianand]

Hello YWa, great tip.

What do you think about this product for accelerating precipitation?

[link]

It's been a long time since I studied chemistry, so Sodium bisulfate might not have the desired effect

From what I understand, precipitation begins at pH < 9, according to the safety data sheet, Vattenstopp is at 10.5.

This should be tested, I already have plenty of this at home since I have to raise the pH in my pool water instead every raw

I didn't dare to treat the whole deck. Brand new deck last year, about 150m2 and my wife looks askance every time I start with new ideas and projects.

However, I tried it on a temporary piece of decking. Looks good so far but no precipitation yet. I'll pour some pH- tonight (secretly)...

 

[hbspeedshop]

How have your tests gone? Personally, I have tested a bit at home with combimix water stop and Weber water stop. Both applied 1:1. Applied 2 coats on treated wood, pine facade, and some pieces of aluminum to see what it works on.

 

[YWa]

Hi YWa, good tip.

What do you think about this product to speed up precipitation?

[link]

It's been a long time since I studied chemistry, so Sodium bisulfate might not give the desired effect

From what I understand, precipitation starts at pH < 9. According to the safety data sheet, Vattenstopp is at 10.5.

Sorry for the late reply, I haven't logged in for a while.

It should definitely work to lower the pH.

However, I'm a bit ambivalent about whether to speed up precipitation or not. CO2 in the air does that job but rather slowly. Rain is also acidic (= lower pH) because of, among other things, CO2 in the air. Which gives the best result I don't know. That's why I've done mine without additional additives to help with precipitation.

For those wondering about the result of my experiment, I can only regret that I can't give a clear answer. Mostly because my deck is already treated with Sioo, albeit with worse results than expected. The deck is "half-good"; if there is no dramatic improvement (which I don't believe in at all), I can't say for sure that it works. Perhaps after all, it's Sioo that has done the job. If it gets worse (ugh, I hope not ), then I will report here that it has failed.

I will remove the green growth in the coming weeks and apply another round with Vattenstopp 1:10 (possibly a bit stronger). We'll see how it looks next year.

Good luck with yours