(I'm a little unsure if I'm posting in the right forum)
Hello! First-time poster here.
I/we recently moved into a newly built condominium/apartment and have a couple of questions regarding sound measurement and actual noise levels.
According to the information, the builder constructed based on sound insulation class C (which is the minimum requirement for new construction today), but I strongly doubt even class C has been achieved.
When the neighbors walk above us, or when their children run, it sounds incredibly loud and intrusive in the apartment. There's nowhere to hide to avoid hearing the sounds. Even the plates in our kitchen cabinets vibrate when the neighbors' children run. It sounds like playing on a big bass drum, and it can even be felt in the body, causing significant discomfort.
Whether you're watching TV, having dinner, or involved in a conversation, you have to stop whatever you're doing because the footstep sounds are so incredibly intrusive and completely take over. In other words, you can't focus on anything at all when foot traffic is ongoing. I find it hard to believe that sound insulation standard C has been met; from what I've read, class C means about one in four people find the sound insulation suboptimal, but in our case, I can guarantee that 100% of anyone listening to the footstep sounds would find them very intrusive and annoying.
I should add that normal conversations aren't heard. You can hear when the children sometimes scream or laugh loudly, which is probably considered acceptable. But the footstep sounds...!
This weekend, the family above us invited other families with children, and the kids ran all day/evening. Eventually, I had to go up and ask them to be quieter. I find it hard to believe that a home built in 2012 would be this noisy—even our old apartment, built in the '60s, was quieter than the new one, at least regarding footstep sounds. My wife and I wear Crocs to avoid disturbing the people below us. This isn't normal, is it? Other neighbors have also expressed surprise at the poor sound insulation, so it's not just us being extra sensitive/picky.
Independent acoustics professionals have measured the noise levels before we moved in, and the results are approved according to the report I received.
I've emailed the acoustics company asking how they measured and am awaiting their reply.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that the measurement results align with reality.
I should add that the builder initially planned to use concrete but changed to wooden frameworks and gypsum during the process since it was faster and cheaper to build. I would assume that this combination of wooden frameworks and gypsum is the culprit.
Other "minor problems" like crooked door frames, carelessly painted walls, etc., now feel like first-world problems that we're willing to accept. The noise really overshadows everything else right now.
Seeking tips and advice. Thanks in advance.
My wife and I have already started considering moving...
* Gypsum ceilings - there are ugly and noticeable bulges across all the ceilings in the living room, about 6-7 in total, approximately 60 cm long and 15 cm wide. If you place a ruler against the bulges, you can rock the ruler a few millimeters. Depending on how the light falls in the apartment, these bulges are incredibly noticeable. Possibly it’s the beams that are bulging here and there, but the builder claims the inspector didn't remark on these bulges and that we might have to live with the issue as they are within the acceptable limits... There will be a follow-up inspection soon for the inspector to look at the bulges again, but I have difficulty seeing how they would address this even if he makes a note. Will they plaster the ceilings or add a layer of gypsum on top of everything..? It will definitely result in a depreciation if we sell the apartment later.
We have learned an expensive and difficult lesson—never buy newly produced properties that only exist on paper....
Additionally—because the ceilings are gypsum, they haven't installed traditional insulation for safety reasons but, to my knowledge, have put some damping material under the parquet floors.
Hello! First-time poster here.
I/we recently moved into a newly built condominium/apartment and have a couple of questions regarding sound measurement and actual noise levels.
According to the information, the builder constructed based on sound insulation class C (which is the minimum requirement for new construction today), but I strongly doubt even class C has been achieved.
When the neighbors walk above us, or when their children run, it sounds incredibly loud and intrusive in the apartment. There's nowhere to hide to avoid hearing the sounds. Even the plates in our kitchen cabinets vibrate when the neighbors' children run. It sounds like playing on a big bass drum, and it can even be felt in the body, causing significant discomfort.
Whether you're watching TV, having dinner, or involved in a conversation, you have to stop whatever you're doing because the footstep sounds are so incredibly intrusive and completely take over. In other words, you can't focus on anything at all when foot traffic is ongoing. I find it hard to believe that sound insulation standard C has been met; from what I've read, class C means about one in four people find the sound insulation suboptimal, but in our case, I can guarantee that 100% of anyone listening to the footstep sounds would find them very intrusive and annoying.
I should add that normal conversations aren't heard. You can hear when the children sometimes scream or laugh loudly, which is probably considered acceptable. But the footstep sounds...!
This weekend, the family above us invited other families with children, and the kids ran all day/evening. Eventually, I had to go up and ask them to be quieter. I find it hard to believe that a home built in 2012 would be this noisy—even our old apartment, built in the '60s, was quieter than the new one, at least regarding footstep sounds. My wife and I wear Crocs to avoid disturbing the people below us. This isn't normal, is it? Other neighbors have also expressed surprise at the poor sound insulation, so it's not just us being extra sensitive/picky.
Independent acoustics professionals have measured the noise levels before we moved in, and the results are approved according to the report I received.
I've emailed the acoustics company asking how they measured and am awaiting their reply.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that the measurement results align with reality.
I should add that the builder initially planned to use concrete but changed to wooden frameworks and gypsum during the process since it was faster and cheaper to build. I would assume that this combination of wooden frameworks and gypsum is the culprit.
Other "minor problems" like crooked door frames, carelessly painted walls, etc., now feel like first-world problems that we're willing to accept. The noise really overshadows everything else right now.
Seeking tips and advice. Thanks in advance.
My wife and I have already started considering moving...
* Gypsum ceilings - there are ugly and noticeable bulges across all the ceilings in the living room, about 6-7 in total, approximately 60 cm long and 15 cm wide. If you place a ruler against the bulges, you can rock the ruler a few millimeters. Depending on how the light falls in the apartment, these bulges are incredibly noticeable. Possibly it’s the beams that are bulging here and there, but the builder claims the inspector didn't remark on these bulges and that we might have to live with the issue as they are within the acceptable limits... There will be a follow-up inspection soon for the inspector to look at the bulges again, but I have difficulty seeing how they would address this even if he makes a note. Will they plaster the ceilings or add a layer of gypsum on top of everything..? It will definitely result in a depreciation if we sell the apartment later.
We have learned an expensive and difficult lesson—never buy newly produced properties that only exist on paper....
Additionally—because the ceilings are gypsum, they haven't installed traditional insulation for safety reasons but, to my knowledge, have put some damping material under the parquet floors.
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A house with a wooden frame is good in many ways, but when it comes to footstep noise or deep bass sounds, it is utterly bad compared to concrete. If I had a choice, I would never move into a multi-family house with a wooden frame.
When you say that even the plates rattle in the cabinets when the kids run upstairs, I don't think there's much you can do about it, unfortunately. For soundproofing, heavy materials are essential.
Our plates can rattle when the kids jump and play in the room above, but we live in a wooden house, and it's our own kids, so you just have to accept it.
When you say that even the plates rattle in the cabinets when the kids run upstairs, I don't think there's much you can do about it, unfortunately. For soundproofing, heavy materials are essential.
Our plates can rattle when the kids jump and play in the room above, but we live in a wooden house, and it's our own kids, so you just have to accept it.
vectrex said:
Hi,
Thanks for the input. Yes, we've learned yet another lesson - don't trust what the builder promises. Because they promised that we residents wouldn't notice any difference even if they changed the building materials... that there would be the same high standards for sound and heat insulation as for concrete. Yeah right.
The most ironic thing in this context is that there are no requirements or standards for measuring sound emanating from lighter materials like a wood frame. The standards that exist currently apply to heavier materials, like concrete. Nevertheless, it has been measured and determined that the construction is classified to achieve sound insulation class C.
The bulges in the ceiling are probably the gypsum joints that are visible. It's extremely difficult to make this look nice with the absolute slanting light you get on the ceiling when the sun shines directly in.
Regarding impact sound, read in Gyproc's handbook pages 332-333 to see how a lightweight floor should be constructed to meet sound class C. www.gyproc.se.
There are also some examples on the wood guide www.traguiden.se
Regarding impact sound, read in Gyproc's handbook pages 332-333 to see how a lightweight floor should be constructed to meet sound class C. www.gyproc.se.
There are also some examples on the wood guide www.traguiden.se
Hi Viktor, thanks for the comments. I have no idea how the joints are placed, but it should at least look like the entire ceiling is in one single piece, so to speak. If the joints are visible, I imagine they should be narrower, but I could be wrong. I have no experience in construction, so I am a novice.Viktor Cz. said:
Thanks for the interesting links!
Read about seam filling in the same manual on pages 453-456. There are different codes that describe how the undercoating and painting should be performed. It is not certain that the contractor is aware of this and has contracted the painter under the 'wrong' code, i.e., with the wrong undercoating. During an inspection of the painter's work, it is still approved because this is the execution that was ordered. Then, towards the residents/buyers, the question is what has been communicated about how it should look.
Living in a newly built Skanska BR. You almost never hear anything from neighbors even though I live on the ground floor. The concrete from hell made me eventually buy a hammer drill to get things up on the outer walls 
However, the ventilation is a bit on the "noisiest" side.
However, the ventilation is a bit on the "noisiest" side.Thanks again for the important input. I will really go through the handbook. As you say, it's not the plasterer's/painter's fault, but more likely that the builder ordered the wrong type of task! There's a lot to that. It's not just our ceilings having problems, at least one neighbor has the same ugly bulges, so it leans towards a planning error. The builder hasn't said much more to us than the inspector has the final say, and a certain margin of error must be accepted.. Sigh.Viktor Cz. said:
Did you write that to make me jealous?nikasp said:I live in a newly built Skanska BR. You almost never hear anything from the neighbors, even though I live on the ground floor. The concrete from hell made me finally buy a hammer drill to put things up on the outer walls
Speaking of ventilation, it works very well but is also quite loud. Especially in the kitchen and bathroom.
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· Västra Götalands Län
· 529 posts
No solution, but a bit more information:
The wooden structure dries primarily during the first year, causing the studs to shrink. 2-4 mm is not unusual. This results in crooked doors, visible seams, and bulges. In the past, construction was done with drier and denser wood; today, the wood is wetter and less dense.
Newly built properties are always of lower quality than older ones. But they often have better features, such as heating, ventilation, fire protection, etc.
If you want to live with all the advantages, a total renovation of a suitable 50-year-old property is the way to go.
The wooden structure dries primarily during the first year, causing the studs to shrink. 2-4 mm is not unusual. This results in crooked doors, visible seams, and bulges. In the past, construction was done with drier and denser wood; today, the wood is wetter and less dense.
Newly built properties are always of lower quality than older ones. But they often have better features, such as heating, ventilation, fire protection, etc.
If you want to live with all the advantages, a total renovation of a suitable 50-year-old property is the way to go.
That sounds reassuring. So there's a risk that there will also be ugly cracks all over the ceiling. The builder is supposed to have a follow-up inspection in a couple of years, and they warned that cracks could occur in the corners of the walls. Ugh. Never again drywall and wood.Niclas Jonsson said:
(Sorry for the bump!)
I have read up a bit more about this with impact sound / lightweight floors and what (realistic!) measures can possibly be carried out.
In short, the existing standard for sound measurement for lightweight floors does not suffice by a long shot. You measure down to 50 Hz to compensate for the lightweight floor, but research shows that the impact sound waves generate the most noise when they are below 50 Hz. In other words, a house can achieve approved sound insulation even though it doesn't actually say anything about how much the sound disturbs.
I also received a response from the sound consultant who was hired to measure the sound level in connection with the construction. They say, among other things, that their hammer machines calibrate automatically, etc. But what puzzles me is that they have concluded that the sound class from the stairwell/elevator is A— but we hear the elevator’s ding sound when we’re inside the apartment. Something is not right.
What I find interesting is that some of those who live on the ground floor DO NOT HEAR the neighbors' foot traffic. I don't know if this applies to everyone living on the ground floor, but I know that at least three apartment holders do not suffer from the problems that we and most in the building suffer from. Could it be that the higher you go up, the harder it is to soundproof?
In any case.
It seems that lowering the ceilings, with two plasterboards + air gap + insulation, is the only realistic solution to dampen the impact sounds heard from above. Asking the neighbor to fix their floor is not really feasible
I realize that it's next to impossible to completely isolate the impact sounds, but if it can at least be halved, I would consider myself satisfied. This is something I'm looking into. Material from Gyroproc seems to be a good option? At the same time, you also get rid of those ugly seams in the ceiling!
I have read up a bit more about this with impact sound / lightweight floors and what (realistic!) measures can possibly be carried out.
In short, the existing standard for sound measurement for lightweight floors does not suffice by a long shot. You measure down to 50 Hz to compensate for the lightweight floor, but research shows that the impact sound waves generate the most noise when they are below 50 Hz. In other words, a house can achieve approved sound insulation even though it doesn't actually say anything about how much the sound disturbs.
I also received a response from the sound consultant who was hired to measure the sound level in connection with the construction. They say, among other things, that their hammer machines calibrate automatically, etc. But what puzzles me is that they have concluded that the sound class from the stairwell/elevator is A— but we hear the elevator’s ding sound when we’re inside the apartment. Something is not right.
What I find interesting is that some of those who live on the ground floor DO NOT HEAR the neighbors' foot traffic. I don't know if this applies to everyone living on the ground floor, but I know that at least three apartment holders do not suffer from the problems that we and most in the building suffer from. Could it be that the higher you go up, the harder it is to soundproof?
In any case.
It seems that lowering the ceilings, with two plasterboards + air gap + insulation, is the only realistic solution to dampen the impact sounds heard from above. Asking the neighbor to fix their floor is not really feasible
I realize that it's next to impossible to completely isolate the impact sounds, but if it can at least be halved, I would consider myself satisfied. This is something I'm looking into. Material from Gyroproc seems to be a good option? At the same time, you also get rid of those ugly seams in the ceiling!
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Hello!
I saw your post some time after the fact and I'm wondering if you attempted lowering the ceilings with drywall and insulation? How did it go and what effect did it have on your living environment?
A reply would be greatly appreciated by someone considering the same solution.
Best regards,
Christopher
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I saw your post some time after the fact and I'm wondering if you attempted lowering the ceilings with drywall and insulation? How did it go and what effect did it have on your living environment?
A reply would be greatly appreciated by someone considering the same solution.
Best regards,
Christopher
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A Average Joe said:(Sorry for the bump!)
I've read a bit more about impact noise/lightweight floors and what (realistic!) measures can possibly be undertaken.
In short, it seems that the existing standard for sound measurement for lightweight floors is far from adequate. Measurements are taken down to 50 Hz to compensate for the lightweight floor, but research shows that impact noise waves generate the most noise when they are below 50 Hz. In other words, a house can achieve approved soundproofing even though it doesn't say much about how much the noise is actually disturbing.
I also got a response from the acoustics consultant who was hired to measure the noise level during the construction. They mentioned that their hammer devices calibrate automatically, etc. But what puzzles me is that they've concluded the sound class from the stairwell/elevator is A - yet we can hear the elevator's ding sound when we're inside the apartment. Something doesn't add up.
What's interesting to me is that some of those living on the ground floor DON'T HEAR the neighbors' foot traffic. I'm not sure if this applies to everyone living on the ground floor, but I know at least three apartment owners don't suffer from the problems that we and most in the building suffer from. Could it be that the higher up you go, the harder it is to soundproof?
Anyway.
It seems like lowering the ceilings with two layers of drywall + air gap + insulation is the only realistic solution to dampen the impact noise coming from above. Asking the neighbor to fix their floor is not really an option
I'm aware that it's impossible to completely isolate the impact noise, but if it can be at least halved, I'll consider myself satisfied. This is something I'm looking into. Materials from Gyroproc seem to be a good option? Plus, it also gets rid of those ugly seams in the ceiling!