How to make construction drawings?

[byggingenjören97]

Many of the details you're thinking about seem to involve the building's climate shell, wasn't that part included in the construction education? In Civil and Environmental Engineering, we took a course where the climate shell and heating/ventilation were included and addressed thermal bridges and moisture transport, etc. Now I don't remember how many details are shown in the course literature but it is at least the foundation for why the details look the way they do (to avoid problems with moisture damage or heat loss). I think Carl Hagentoft wrote the book we used, there is also a book "for the general public" on the subject called "Wandering Moisture, Radiant Heat - This is How Houses Work" which might be a good start. It should be possible to borrow from the library.

I would probably look for some distance course to take, hard to show a future employer that you know something without any certificate, I think.

Yes, we learned a bit about moisture and heat flows through the climate shell, some ventilation, thermal bridges, etc., but it was very theoretical with mostly just calculations. Not very practical at all. It didn't help me understand a bit about details. Just how to calculate a bit of moisture, etc. It was certainly quite educational but quite impractical as mentioned. It doesn't help me to understand why a construction is designed the way it is in reality. My purpose with this is not to tell the employer that I already know something about the subject area. I'm doing this solely for myself (genuine interest) and to get a smooth start when I finally set foot in the industry.

 

[byggingenjören97]

Doesn't it feel strange to have to take a course in building envelope and heating/ventilation when you've studied to be a civil engineer in construction? What do you actually learn during the education?

I don't understand what you mean. What's strange? I'm not the one who decides how a university program is structured. Why would it otherwise be strange? Building envelope and heating/ventilation are related to construction. You learn quite a lot at university. You might not take everything you learn into your career, but there are certainly things that are useful to understand depending on what you want to work with. For example, if I want to do calculations on structural strength, it's quite important to be familiar with how moment and shear force distribution looks for different scenarios, properties of various materials, etc. Otherwise, you learn a lot on the job. All civil engineers who graduated from Chalmers seem to be doing pretty well in their careers, so I don't think there's a problem with the education.

 

[Casaloco]

Check the moisture handbook, it may be available at the library. It addresses what you seem to be asking about.

https://byggtjanst.se/bokhandel/kat...e/fukt/fukthandbok.-praktik-och-teori.-utg-4/

 

[patrikd84]

Doesn't it feel strange to need to take a course in building envelope and heating/ventilation when you've studied to be a building engineer?
What do you actually learn during the education?

Depends on whether it was included or not. The building engineer program and the civil engineering program don't contain the same subjects, but now they are studying this so that's good

 

[roli]

Counting only takes me so far. It's not enough to understand the whole design. Maybe just 5% of it. Take a look at this drawing below for example. How should one go about understanding this?

To be able to understand a drawing like this, you need to break it down into its components. Take, for instance, the floor structure, go through it bit by bit. Start by removing the insulation, how does the framework look, what connects to what, what is the pitch of each detail, why, etc. Many of the measurements are according to calculation, others so that, for example, a panel doesn't bend too much, which in itself is again based on calculation. Many dimensions are not calculated because experience or building tradition dictates using these dimensions. And so on, and so on.

I would say that much of why it looks like it does is tradition and experience, as well as a little "laziness." Why change something that has worked in the past? This continues until someone starts thinking a bit more about a certain solution and tries/calculates/thinks/discusses whether it can't be done differently. It might be a great solution from a construction standpoint but costs more money, and so on.

All construction is calculation, tradition of accepted solutions, a little new thinking, experience, simplification if possible, etc.

Much cannot be learned from reading alone; you have to try it and then seek information from the builder on whether the solution was good or if the "old" one was/is better, in terms of time, cost, ergonomics, maintenance, environmental impact, etc.

As you can see, many parameters dictate why it looks the way it does. But one thing remains, you don't learn much if you're not curious, interested, and ask a lot of questions. That is a big key to learning.

 

[KnockOnWood]

Many interesting viewpoints here!
Now I will wrap up my participation:
Construction differs significantly between small houses on the one hand, and high-rise buildings, bridges, and ice rinks on the other, doesn't it?
For small houses, the construction is largely determined by factors other than strength, such as thermal and sound insulation.

But as I see it, @byggingenjören97 needs a mentor with experience in all aspects of building construction.
And then I take the liberty to recommend "the number one enemy of sick buildings," Christer Harrysson.
Here he is: http://byggochenergiteknik.se/
Send an email, SMS, or call!

 

[seniorkonsult]

I find it frightening when I read this thread. How can one be an educated engineer and not understand how a drawing, where there is text on every detail, is interpreted? Has the engineering education been diluted to incomprehensibility in the last few decades? Or half-century when it comes to me. When I graduated, I could read drawings passably, calculate simple beams, draw simple 100-parts (building permit documents), site plans, as well as sections and simple details at a scale of 1:50. I think a simple concrete slab was also included. We also drew foundation plans using promotional materials from foundation block manufacturers as aid. For our thesis, we designed and drew a villa with plans and sections at a scale of 1:50. How can it change like that? Studying Byggh 90 and visiting or interning at a construction site is the best advice I can give you. You seem very interested/curious so you should do well! Good luck!

 

[patrikd84]

I find it frightening when I read this thread. How can someone be an educated engineer and not understand how a drawing, with text on every detail, is interpreted? Has engineering education been watered down to incomprehensibility in the last decades? Or half a century regarding me. When I graduated, I could read drawings passably, calculate simple beams, draw simple 100-parts (building permit documents), site plans, and sections and simple details at scale 1:50. I believe something simple like concrete slab also came into play. We even drew foundation plans with the help of foundation block manufacturers' brochures. As a final project, we designed and drew a villa with plans and sections at scale 1:50.
How can it change so much? Study Byggh 90 and visit or intern at a construction site is the best advice I can give you. You seem very interested/curious, so you will do well! Good luck!

My perception is that today's civil engineering education provides quite a broad base because it forms the foundation for specialization in the last two years. Since you can choose around 8 different tracks, many introductory courses to these tracks must be included, along with mathematics. Previously, the education was more straightforward, meaning you chose your specialization when selecting a program. So before, there was one straight path (or at least fewer paths than today), which allowed for more courses within a narrower field.

 

[seniorkonsult]

My understanding is that today's civil engineering program provides quite a broad base as it lays the foundation for specialization in the last two years, and since you can choose around 8 different tracks, there are many introductory courses that these tracks must incorporate. Along with mathematics. Previously, the education was (presumably?) more straightforward, meaning you chose your specialization with the program selection. So before, it was a straight path (or at least fewer than today), which allowed for more courses in a narrower field.

Sure, but structural engineering is a construction line and nothing else. Then you can specialize as a designer, for example, but I at least learned some basics during my education.

 

[bossespecial]

What are you referring to when you say bygglinje? Are the same things being discussed? The byggingenjörsutbildning is a theoretical education and not practical.

 

[seniorkonsult]

What do you mean when you say construction line? Are we talking about the same things? The civil engineering program is a theoretical education and not practical.

Who mentioned practical? You get practical experience during breaks and later. You chose construction, electricity, mechanical, and telecom, I think it was.

 

[byggingenjören97]

I find it alarming when I've read this thread. How can someone be a trained engineer and not understand how a drawing, with text on each detail, is interpreted? Has the engineering education been watered down to incomprehensibility in the last few decades? Or half a century when it comes to me. When I graduated, I could read drawings passably, calculate simple beams, draw simple 1:100 (building permit documents), site plans as well as sections and simple details in scale 1:50. I think we also covered simple concrete slabs. We also drew foundation plans with the aid of foundation block manufacturers' brochures. For our thesis, we had to design and draw a house with plans and sections in scale 1:50. How can it change so? Studying Construction 90 and visiting or doing an internship at a construction site is the best advice I can give you. You seem very interested/keen to learn, so you will manage well! Good luck!

I don't know why it would be alarming. I did my thesis work at one of the largest construction companies where some of Sweden's best engineers work. They said it's not expected for us to know such things as newly graduated students. It's something you learn on the job, and you rarely use any knowledge from school. You learn most of it at the workplace. They themselves graduated from Chalmers and were in the same situation once. Their careers went smoothly, so there's nothing wrong with the education itself. Even if there was, it's not something I have control over. I don't decide how an educational program should be structured. Otherwise, you've misunderstood the thread. I'm not referring to drawing techniques and reading plans. We learned that in the education too. We also learned to calculate beams, moisture, and heat flow, among other things. I'm also not referring to just any drawings. I'm solely referring to construction drawings. Not site plans, floor plans, sectional plans, or anything else. We learned how to draw. A 16-year-old can learn that in a week. Not exactly hard to learn. I'm talking in this thread about the physics behind the drawing. Why it is drawn the way it is. What each specific part's purpose is and why it appears in that way. I can draw most things, but I also want to understand what I am drawing and why it is drawn that way. Studying Construction 90 doesn't help at all. It just says "draw like this." Okay, but why should it be drawn like that? That's what I'm interested in. Hope you understand me better now

 

[bossespecial]

Who talked about practical? You get practice during breaks and later. They chose construction, electricity, machine, and telecommunication I think it was.

It was easy to misinterpret what you meant, that was all. Today the education looks very different compared to what it did before, so it's difficult to directly compare.

 

[bossespecial]

I don't know why it would be frightening. I did my thesis at one of the largest construction companies where some of Sweden's best civil engineers work. They said that it is not expected for us to know such things as newly graduated. It's something you learn on the job and that you hardly use any knowledge from school. You learn most things at the workplace. They themselves graduated from Chalmers and have been in the same situation once. Their careers went splendidly, so there is nothing wrong with the education itself. Even if there was, it's nothing I can control. I don't decide how the layout of an education should be. Otherwise, you have interpreted the thread incorrectly. I'm not referring to drafting techniques and being able to read drawings. We also learned that in the education. We also learned to calculate beams, moisture, and heat flow, among many other things. I'm not referring to just any drawings, either. I'm only referring to structural drawings. Not site plans, floor plans, sectional plans, or anything else. We learned how to draw. A 16-year-old can learn that in a week too. Not exactly something difficult to learn. In this thread, I'm talking about the physics behind the drawing. Why it is drawn as it is. Specifically, what each specific part's purpose is and why it looks the way it does. I can draw most things but I also want to understand what I'm drawing and why it's drawn in just that way. Studying construction 90 doesn't help at all. It just says "draw like this." Okay, but why should it be drawn like that? That's what I'm interested in. Hope you understand me better now

Some of Sweden's best? Did you do your thesis with me and @patrikd84?

 

[seniorkonsult]

I don't know why it would be scary. I did my thesis work at one of the largest construction companies where some of Sweden's best building engineers work. They said that we are not expected to know much like new graduates. It's something you learn on the job and you hardly use any knowledge from school. You learn most things at the workplace. They themselves graduated from Chalmers and were in the same situation once. Their careers went great, so there is nothing wrong with the education itself. Even if there was, it's nothing I have control over. I don't decide how the setup of an education should look. Otherwise, you've interpreted the thread wrong. I am not referring to drawing techniques and being able to read drawings. We also learned that in the education. We also learned to calculate on beams, moisture, and heat flow and much more. I am not referring to just any drawings either. I am solely referring to construction drawings. Not site plans, floor plans, section plans, or anything else. We learned how to draw. A 16-year-old can also do it in a week. Not exactly hard to learn. In this thread, I am talking about the physics behind the drawing. Why it's drawn the way it is. That is, what purpose each specific part has and why it looks the way it does. I can draw most things, but I also want to understand what I'm drawing and why it's drawn in that particular way. Studying Bygg 90 helps nothing. It just says "draw like this." Okay, but why should it be drawn that way? That is what I am interested in. Hope you understand me better now

I thought today's education was like before, meaning when you draw something, you know what you're drawing. I thought that's what you learned. Moisture problems, the purpose of insulation, load-bearing/capacity, haven't you studied that? Roof coverings/tiles/sheet metal protect against water/moisture problems along with roofing felt, reinforcement in concrete for tensile, compression, and bending, etc., insulation against heat/cold, interior foil against moisture in insulation. Drawing is not learned in a few days, you must first know what you're drawing and why. This is learned in school or by studying the function. Drainage collects surface water and prevents moisture from staying against the foundation wall. There is a lot of literature about all such functions and in material descriptions. Visit construction sites! Construction documents 90 show in detail various solutions. Otherwise, we are back to the school desk where you learn why different things are mounted, for example on a foundation wall or wall.