Hello everyone!
I've previously asked questions on this awesome forum on various topics and received a lot of help.
So let's try again.
A little background!
I live in a 70s apartment. Most of the walls are solid. When I, for example, want to attach shelves, paintings, etc., I drill and get in a few millimeters and then it stops. I switch to a metal drill (low speed, constant cooling) but still can't get through. My drill machine is solid (at least, I think so) and I bought it from Bosch for 2000 SEK. I've already ruined 3 metal drills of various sizes. (I start with a small drill bit). I tried to find out if there are any robust drills that can get through whatever is behind the wall (reinforcement bars, steel, iron, diamond ). But I don't get a consistent answer. Some say I need a Hilti machine for a billion, others say I should use core drilling, diamond drilling, or some other fancy drill name.
So I gave up on the drilling option to mount two paintings (for now anyway).
My question is, can someone give me a single "correct" answer on what I should do about the drilling?
Otherwise, let's move on to the next option I need answers for.
I spoke with a friend who is a caulker. He gave me a sealant adhesive that is SUPER strong. It's supposed to hold many 100! kilos if you use a big blob and apply pressure so that the glue dries really well. I used this to attach some heavier items to the ceiling. But this wasn't a problem during drying as I used a beam with vertical force when it dried. To test later, I hung on the wooden piece I attached and swung, and it held --> good stuff indeed.
My question is --> When I'm attaching things (painting, shelves) on walls, how can I apply pressure so it dries properly? Like a type of clamp but for the wall. (Unfortunately, he's on vacation so I'm asking you guys.)
The reason I'm explaining so much is to rule out answers I already know
So, 2 questions.
Which drill bit/drill machine if there is ONE correct answer?
How to apply horizontal pressure to the wall for glue drying? Like a "wall clamp".
Thanks in advance
Best regards,
Sam
I've previously asked questions on this awesome forum on various topics and received a lot of help.
So let's try again.
A little background!
I live in a 70s apartment. Most of the walls are solid. When I, for example, want to attach shelves, paintings, etc., I drill and get in a few millimeters and then it stops. I switch to a metal drill (low speed, constant cooling) but still can't get through. My drill machine is solid (at least, I think so) and I bought it from Bosch for 2000 SEK. I've already ruined 3 metal drills of various sizes. (I start with a small drill bit). I tried to find out if there are any robust drills that can get through whatever is behind the wall (reinforcement bars, steel, iron, diamond
). But I don't get a consistent answer. Some say I need a Hilti machine for a billion, others say I should use core drilling, diamond drilling, or some other fancy drill name. So I gave up on the drilling option to mount two paintings (for now anyway).
My question is, can someone give me a single "correct" answer on what I should do about the drilling?
Otherwise, let's move on to the next option I need answers for.
I spoke with a friend who is a caulker. He gave me a sealant adhesive that is SUPER strong. It's supposed to hold many 100! kilos if you use a big blob and apply pressure so that the glue dries really well. I used this to attach some heavier items to the ceiling. But this wasn't a problem during drying as I used a beam with vertical force when it dried. To test later, I hung on the wooden piece I attached and swung, and it held --> good stuff indeed.
My question is --> When I'm attaching things (painting, shelves) on walls, how can I apply pressure so it dries properly? Like a type of clamp but for the wall. (Unfortunately, he's on vacation so I'm asking you guys.)
The reason I'm explaining so much is to rule out answers I already know
So, 2 questions.
Which drill bit/drill machine if there is ONE correct answer?
How to apply horizontal pressure to the wall for glue drying? Like a "wall clamp".
Thanks in advance
Best regards,
Sam
Hello. I’m going to respond with some other silly questions, since I don’t know what you’ve been asking about in the other threads. But you just mention that you have a "robust" drill and you’re using a steel drill bit, but it sounds like what you need is a hammer drill with a concrete bit. But maybe that’s exactly what you have? To put up some shelves and paintings in an apartment, a very simple hammer drill is usually sufficient, for example Clas has one for 300kr: http://www.clasohlson.se/link/m3/Product,Product.aspx?artnr=40-7964 I myself lived in an apartment with some walls made of strong hard concrete, and a cheap hammer drill with cheap concrete bits always worked for me, even if some walls required a bit of sweat to manage.
So to my next silly question, but have you tried these: http://www.clasohlson.se/link/m3/Product,Product.aspx?artnr=21-2654 I often used these in my old apartment, even for relatively heavy paintings. But of course they don’t work for shelves. And if the walls have a layer of plaster or filler on the surface, they are also not likely to hold.
So to my next silly question, but have you tried these: http://www.clasohlson.se/link/m3/Product,Product.aspx?artnr=21-2654 I often used these in my old apartment, even for relatively heavy paintings. But of course they don’t work for shelves. And if the walls have a layer of plaster or filler on the surface, they are also not likely to hold.
Hello bjomappe.
I will try to provide some answers to address your questions.
What I have is a percussion drill (not a hammer drill, and the machine also has a regular drill function). It's not the cheapest drill (2000:- Bosch) and it does its job well. What I mean by this is: Previously I mentioned that some walls have "reinforcement bars" while others are just concrete/hard concrete. Here, there is no problem with the drill. I set it to percussion mode, get out the concrete bit, and it goes through like butter --> no problem.
But with some other walls, it goes like this. I attach the concrete bit + percussion mode. I get through about half a cm of concrete, then complete stop. Looking into the hole, you see some type of metal. And if I switch to a metal bit, metal chips do fly out, but I just can't get through, even though I cool the bit.
So in summary.
Hard as hell walls --> Get through 1/2 cm of concrete --> then iron --> stop. (ruined 3 metal bits)
Regular concrete walls --> attach concrete bit + percussion --> goes through like butter.
Those XB-hooks you linked to, I've tested. The nails bend when I hit them because the "reinforcement bar" is close to the wall if you know what I mean.
Best regards,
Sam
I will try to provide some answers to address your questions.
What I have is a percussion drill (not a hammer drill, and the machine also has a regular drill function). It's not the cheapest drill (2000:- Bosch) and it does its job well. What I mean by this is: Previously I mentioned that some walls have "reinforcement bars" while others are just concrete/hard concrete. Here, there is no problem with the drill. I set it to percussion mode, get out the concrete bit, and it goes through like butter --> no problem.
But with some other walls, it goes like this. I attach the concrete bit + percussion mode. I get through about half a cm of concrete, then complete stop. Looking into the hole, you see some type of metal. And if I switch to a metal bit, metal chips do fly out, but I just can't get through, even though I cool the bit.
So in summary.
Hard as hell walls --> Get through 1/2 cm of concrete --> then iron --> stop. (ruined 3 metal bits)
Regular concrete walls --> attach concrete bit + percussion --> goes through like butter.
Those XB-hooks you linked to, I've tested. The nails bend when I hit them because the "reinforcement bar" is close to the wall if you know what I mean.
Best regards,
Sam
If you go back to gluing on the walls, you can do it in a similar way as on the ceiling.
Find something that is long enough to wedge against the opposite wall, and that will solve the problem.
Alternatively, lean something heavy against what you want to glue. If not much pressure is needed, which I actually guess is the case with your glue, it might be enough to place a support underneath, or tape it in place while the glue hardens.
Then it would be interesting to know how your walls are made if they are so strange to drill into...
Find something that is long enough to wedge against the opposite wall, and that will solve the problem.
Alternatively, lean something heavy against what you want to glue. If not much pressure is needed, which I actually guess is the case with your glue, it might be enough to place a support underneath, or tape it in place while the glue hardens.
Then it would be interesting to know how your walls are made if they are so strange to drill into...
Bosch has a drill that goes through both concrete and metal: http://www.proffsmagasinet.se/verktyg-bosch/tillbehor/multi-construction-borrset.html Combine with a cutting fluid or cutting paste and periodically cool the drill in water. Drill without impact with low speed and high pressure to drill through the metal.
You can create horizontal pressure with a telescopic prop: http://www.jula.se/proffsstotta-50-145-290-cm-125260
You can create horizontal pressure with a telescopic prop: http://www.jula.se/proffsstotta-50-145-290-cm-125260
It's leaning more and more towards finding a solution for drilling into the wall.
More stuff (blackout curtain, more shelves, mirrors, etc., besides paintings) needs to go up on the walls. It doesn't feel stable to use glue. Even though it's strong as H*LL, I can't find a great solution for the pressure during drying time. The one you linked to Helioz seems to be a solution, but it costs a bit, and it's not "universal" for my other things that need to go on walls.
Then there's the question of drilling Helioz.
Does it work with such cheap drills? Shouldn't one go for slightly more expensive ones since I'm going to drill several holes anyway? Links to drills are appreciated?
Regarding the drill machine.
When you're not going to use the hammer function, run at low speed, and apply pressure yourself, what difference does it make "how good" the drill machine is? What I mean is the one I have should be enough?
I think it's this one:
http://www.tretti.se/hem-och-fritid/elverktyg/borrar/black-och-decker-kr703k-qs
In other words: Are there really good things when it comes to drills (as long as the drill machine isn't the bottleneck) otherwise it's money down the drain.
Best regards,
Sam
More stuff (blackout curtain, more shelves, mirrors, etc., besides paintings) needs to go up on the walls. It doesn't feel stable to use glue. Even though it's strong as H*LL, I can't find a great solution for the pressure during drying time. The one you linked to Helioz seems to be a solution, but it costs a bit, and it's not "universal" for my other things that need to go on walls.
Then there's the question of drilling Helioz.
Does it work with such cheap drills? Shouldn't one go for slightly more expensive ones since I'm going to drill several holes anyway? Links to drills are appreciated?
Regarding the drill machine.
When you're not going to use the hammer function, run at low speed, and apply pressure yourself, what difference does it make "how good" the drill machine is? What I mean is the one I have should be enough?
I think it's this one:
http://www.tretti.se/hem-och-fritid/elverktyg/borrar/black-och-decker-kr703k-qs
In other words: Are there really good things when it comes to drills (as long as the drill machine isn't the bottleneck) otherwise it's money down the drain.
Best regards,
Sam
As I mentioned earlier in the post:
"When you shouldn't use the hammer function, run at low speeds, and manually apply pressure. What difference does it make how 'good' the drill is? What I mean is that the one I have should suffice."
Best regards,
Sam
"When you shouldn't use the hammer function, run at low speeds, and manually apply pressure. What difference does it make how 'good' the drill is? What I mean is that the one I have should suffice."
Best regards,
Sam
I might have misunderstood the whole thing.
The concrete that is half a cm thick is not a problem. I can get through it with a concrete drill + hammer like butter.
The metal (or whatever it is) is the problem. It's mentioned earlier in the thread that when drilling through metal:
"Combine with a cutting fluid or cutting paste and periodically cool the drill in water.
Run without hammering at low speed and high pressure to drill through the metal."
Do I need a superb drill for this?
Best regards,
Sam
The concrete that is half a cm thick is not a problem. I can get through it with a concrete drill + hammer like butter.
The metal (or whatever it is) is the problem. It's mentioned earlier in the thread that when drilling through metal:
"Combine with a cutting fluid or cutting paste and periodically cool the drill in water.
Run without hammering at low speed and high pressure to drill through the metal."
Do I need a superb drill for this?
Best regards,
Sam
It doesn't matter how good a rotary hammer and how good a concrete drill you use if there's a thick reinforcing bar in the way.
But as Helioz wrote, without impact, use high pressure and cool the drill. Start with a small drill and work your way up. Invest in a drill set of good quality, cheap drills usually don't work so well. Then when you are through, it should hopefully work well with the concrete drill again.
But as Helioz wrote, without impact, use high pressure and cool the drill. Start with a small drill and work your way up. Invest in a drill set of good quality, cheap drills usually don't work so well. Then when you are through, it should hopefully work well with the concrete drill again.
OK Jerka-L.
So I'm using the same machine but better drills.
Where can I buy really fine metal drills?
They can be a bit pricey but they should be of good quality as well. They will be used frequently.
I don't know which "types" of metal drills I should get though. Links would be appreciated thanks?
This thing with cutting paste/liquid. Where do I buy that?
Regards
Sam
So I'm using the same machine but better drills.
Where can I buy really fine metal drills?
They can be a bit pricey but they should be of good quality as well. They will be used frequently.
I don't know which "types" of metal drills I should get though. Links would be appreciated thanks?
This thing with cutting paste/liquid. Where do I buy that?
Regards
Sam
Yes, drilling in metal should work fine with your machine.
There can be a big difference between the stroke of a drill with a hammer function and a hammer drill. Some drills with a hammer function don't work at all in hard concrete, whereas hammer drills go through it thanks to much stronger impact.
Some walls where you live might be real concrete, while others might be lightweight concrete walls or brick. Both feel hard when you knock on them, but there's a big difference when drilling into them.
Good metal drills can be found in a hardware store like Beijer, XL- bygg, or ironmongery shops like Prevex or järnartiklar.
There can be a big difference between the stroke of a drill with a hammer function and a hammer drill. Some drills with a hammer function don't work at all in hard concrete, whereas hammer drills go through it thanks to much stronger impact.
Some walls where you live might be real concrete, while others might be lightweight concrete walls or brick. Both feel hard when you knock on them, but there's a big difference when drilling into them.
Good metal drills can be found in a hardware store like Beijer, XL- bygg, or ironmongery shops like Prevex or järnartiklar.
Ok. Jerka_L. d^_^b
Then I'll go with my machine. If it doesn't work, I can always buy a better machine (at least then I'll know it's the machine and not crappy drills that are the culprit)(A cheaper start, so to speak)
Regarding which metal drill I should buy, I meant if there is a specific brand known for quality, or if there is a standard or some type of "drill material" that is stronger/better?
Can't rely on them always knowing that stuff at the stores.
Dormer? Snabbstål? Kolstål? Titanium coating? Titex? Hss? .....(The brands and materials are not always that easy :S
Aaa... you probably know what I mean.
Thanks in advance :wow:
Best regards
Sam
Then I'll go with my machine. If it doesn't work, I can always buy a better machine (at least then I'll know it's the machine and not crappy drills that are the culprit)(A cheaper start, so to speak)
Regarding which metal drill I should buy, I meant if there is a specific brand known for quality, or if there is a standard or some type of "drill material" that is stronger/better?
Can't rely on them always knowing that stuff at the stores.
Dormer? Snabbstål? Kolstål? Titanium coating? Titex? Hss? .....(The brands and materials are not always that easy :S
Aaa... you probably know what I mean.
Thanks in advance :wow:
Best regards
Sam
It's a bit of a shame to use fine metal drills for this application as the drills will come into contact with the concrete both when drilling and when going through the metal, this will wear down the drills significantly, which means you might need to sharpen them after drilling. With the drills I linked, you just need to turn on the hammer again once you are through the metal and continue drilling, so you can drill the hole in one go.
You wondered earlier about the price of the drills; I just wanted to mention that it's excluding VAT on the website:
http://www.proffsmagasinet.se/verktyg-bosch/tillbehor/multi-construction-borrset.html
So, 4 drills cost 186 kr, approximately 46 kr per drill, which is considered quite high.
If you want tips on good metal drills (and others), the following thread is great:
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/verktyg-maskiner-fordon/130678-riktigt-bra-borr.html
You wondered earlier about the price of the drills; I just wanted to mention that it's excluding VAT on the website:
http://www.proffsmagasinet.se/verktyg-bosch/tillbehor/multi-construction-borrset.html
So, 4 drills cost 186 kr, approximately 46 kr per drill, which is considered quite high.
If you want tips on good metal drills (and others), the following thread is great:
http://www.byggahus.se/forum/verktyg-maskiner-fordon/130678-riktigt-bra-borr.html