the side forces will also be distributed over several screws, which is why these should be quite moderate if they are generated by pedestrian traffic. My guess is that it will hold, but it has been a while since I calculated strength.
SBH: I didn't get much wiser from that, is the nivell screw bigger? Does it hold better then?
The nivell screw is made of nylon and the frame sleeve is metal, does that matter?
I don't understand the last part at all?
I have used regelvirke and wedges in pairs for the floor. C-c 300 mm. With a plan laser and measuring rod, it's actually quite easy to work with. On top of this, chipboard flooring and rubber floor. I have 300-kg machines on swivel casters on that floor, and it doesn't flex to the point where it feels bad in any way.
Because masonite is normally 3.2 mm. It is not always suitable for flooring, especially if you have close spacing between joists and want to cover with stiff floor chipboard.
Really like your attempts and ideas. Just wanted to say that if you're going to get 400 karmhylsor, you should be able to get a better price than 3000kr. At least if you avoid Bauhaus and places like that.
An even cheaper solution is to use threaded rod. Cut to the appropriate length and make a t-slot at the top with an angle grinder. Threaded rod is available in more robust dimensions so that bending/lateral forces are not a problem. That's what I did when leveling an outdoor wooden deck built on concrete slabs.
The thought crossed my mind, but I concluded that it wasn't worth the effort for the small savings this would ultimately provide.
L-E said:
Lateral forces will also be distributed over several screws, which is why they should be quite moderate if they are generated by foot traffic. My guess is that it will hold, though it was a while since I calculated for durability.
I'm not the least bit worried about the lateral force. In my test above, a sleeve holds at least 270 kg, and with screwed and glued chipboard on top, the lateral forces will be distributed over many, many sleeves (perhaps even all of them?).
nino said:
SBH: I didn't get much wiser from that, is the nivell screw bigger? Does it hold better then?
The nivell screw is made of nylon and the frame sleeve of metal, does that make a difference?
I'm not entirely with you on the last part?
A larger screw will hold better (or in this case, the wood will hold better) since there is a larger cross-section on the threads, and if I remember correctly, a screw joint between two similar materials (wood and nylon for a Nivell screw) is preferable over one between two more different materials (wood and zinc for a frame sleeve). But still, my tests above indicate that a frame sleeve withstands many, many hundreds of kilos before it (or rather the wood) gives way.
mattiasp said:
Because masonite is normally 3.2 mm. It's not always suitable for flooring, especially if you have a close spacing between joists and want to cover with rigid chipboard.
Spot on.
Tobas said:
I really like your experiments and ideas. I just wanted to say that if you're going to use 400 frame sleeves, you should be able to get a better price than 3000 kr. At least if you avoid Bauhaus and similar places.
3000 kr is what I paid for 400 frame sleeves and matching concrete screws. The fact that I needed 38 mm sleeves drove the price up a bit.
This was for Essve Indu-Prog; I could have saved a few hundred if I bought sleeves from a no-name brand and some other screws (like Fischer FFS), but it didn't feel worth it. Adjufix was more expensive, I might add.
Because masonite is normally 3.2 mm. It is not always suitable for flooring, especially if you have a short distance between joists and want to cover with rigid floor chipboard.
I don't understand!
The masonite pieces are supposed to be spacers between the concrete slab and the floor joists.
What significance do the distance between joists and surface layer have?
I don't understand!
The masonite sheets are supposed to be spacers between the concrete slab and the floor joists.
What does joist spacing and surface layer have to do with it?
Masonite is 3.2 mm thick, which means the floor joists can have a height difference of up to that much. And if the floor joists are very close together (say CC 30), it can be difficult or even impossible to fasten floorboards (which are very rigid) to them. At least that's how I reasoned, correct me if you thought differently mattiasp.
And a side question while we're on the topic; does anyone know what the recommended maximum load for chipboard flooring at say CC 60 and CC 30 is? Assuming infinitely stiff floor joists. I assume it is the point load in the middle between two joists that becomes decisive then?
Masonite is 3.2 mm thick, which means that the floor joists can have a height difference between each other of, in the worst case, that much. And if the floor joists are then very close together (say CC 30), it can be difficult or even impossible to screw down chipboard flooring (which is very rigid) on them. At least that's how I figured it, correct me if you thought differently, mattiasp.
Yes, exactly, but the maximum difference would then be 1.6 mm. If it were 3.2, you could get it exactly right... ...yeah, you get it.
But wedges are seamless. Everyone understands that you work with wedges in pairs, right? So I don't have to keep repeating it every time I talk about wedges. I like wedges. I've built a special bandsaw jig for slightly larger wedges with the dimensions of 28 mm on the thick side and 280 mm long. Built for sparse paneling, but sometimes I also make pressure-treated ones. I can make a larger number if you want. Not for a football field, but reasonable quantities.
Yes, exactly, but the maximum difference would then be 1.6 mm. If it were 3.2, you could get it exactly right... ...you get it.
Well, If you have a certain target height you're aiming for, you would likely end up +/-1.6 mm from it, but in the worst case, two adjacent studs could end up at each extreme of this range.
And even if you're not that strict with the absolute height, there's still a risk that the studs end up higher and higher (or lower and lower) until you eventually have to make a bigger leap to get back to the correct height.
mattiasp said:
But wedges are stepless. Everyone understands that you work with wedges in pairs, right? So I don't have to keep repeating that every time I talk about wedges. I like wedges. I've built a special bandsaw jig for slightly larger wedges with dimensions of 28 mm on the thick side and 280 mm long. Built for spaced panels, but sometimes I also make pressure-treated ones. I can make a larger number if you want some. Not for a football field, but in reasonable quantities.
Sure, of course, wedges should be used in pairs. Wedges were option 2 on the list, but since I lack both a bandsaw jig and a bandsaw, I had no good way to cut 800 wedges.
I also would have needed to go up a few sizes on the concrete screw since it needs to go through both the stud and wedges and into the floor, which would also have eaten up some of the cost savings.
OK, 800 wedges will probably take me a few hours to make, with purchasing, cutting, and sawing. Additionally, it will be so much that it becomes pallet goods. In the end, it probably won't be much of a cost savings.
I have also mounted a framework of sparse paneling in my kitchen, using frame screws. Really easy to get it level, perpendicular, and plumb. However, I didn't quite trust the frame screws, and reinforced after adjustment with—you guessed it... wedges!
