Hello, we have done roughly the same maneuver in our split-level basement. The old garage will become a recreation room. Now we have 30 cm of polystyrene under the new slab and isodrän on the outside of the walls.
We haven't had any moisture problems and live dry on a ridge.
I'm thinking of smoothing out the walls and ceiling with gypsum plaster. It becomes smooth and nice, can be sanded and then painted directly on.
I got a price of 5000 SEK for the entire room (21 sqm) including the ceiling. The room looks quite shabby right now with fallen plaster in several places. 5000 feels quite cheap to get it smooth and nice (also in window niches, around door frames, and other areas that are very difficult to get nice yourself).
Any thoughts on using natural gypsum directly on the lightweight concrete walls?
/A
We haven't had any moisture problems and live dry on a ridge.
I'm thinking of smoothing out the walls and ceiling with gypsum plaster. It becomes smooth and nice, can be sanded and then painted directly on.
I got a price of 5000 SEK for the entire room (21 sqm) including the ceiling. The room looks quite shabby right now with fallen plaster in several places. 5000 feels quite cheap to get it smooth and nice (also in window niches, around door frames, and other areas that are very difficult to get nice yourself).
Any thoughts on using natural gypsum directly on the lightweight concrete walls?
/A
We have plastered walls in our basement, in all rooms except one it's painted plaster, and the walls are nice, but in one room, where the previous owners have wallpapered, painted several times on the wallpaper, which was also glued to the plaster, and on top of everything had installed paneling, with studs directly in the concrete, no air gap at all. After tearing everything down (the studs were rotten), I had planned to replaster the wall and paint it, but then it turned out that the plaster is so bad in that room, most likely because the wall had been wallpapered and painted and paneled, so it probably couldn't breathe and remained damp constantly. Now I have framed the walls and plan to put up drywall instead, I have used 45*45 studs, placing double pieces of roofing felt behind each screw that secures the stud, there is about a 3-4 mm air gap between the studs and concrete, and I am also leaving a 1 cm gap at the top with the drywall to allow air circulation. I asked an inspector if this would be sufficient, and he said it sounded good, as long as I didn't put insulation behind. 2 of the walls are also exterior walls, the basement is not drained, but we have about 23-25 degrees Celsius warm in the basement, the previous owner never had the heat on at all =(.
Member
· stockholm
· 483 posts
the most important thing is that moisture does not get into the wall.. it is that simple. drain, insulate, moisture-proof from the outside... then it matters little what you have on the inside. moisture in the concrete will always cause problems. Quick fixes only lead to mold issues. trapped moisture smells :-?
I'm new to this forum and must say I'm impressed by the expertise and engagement here. It's particularly interesting to read this thread since I work as a consultant specializing in moisture and indoor environments. The exchange between Poiu and the builder was both interesting and educational for those interested in moisture issues.
Before we delve further into the intricate and exciting world of moisture theories, I would like to point out the following advice for those who do not possess Poiu and the builder's theoretical knowledge:
It's actually not more complicated than that—if you want to be sure to avoid mold, remove the organic material. If you start experimenting, you can probably do well if you're skilled and the circumstances are in your favor, but personally, I may find it somewhat unnecessary.
Regarding gypsum use on damp walls, I urge a bit of caution. Gypsum-based products rarely withstand moisture very well, as often seen with gypsum-based leveling compounds (self-leveling compound) that break down when applied to damp basement floors. Personally, I have not seen any damage cases with gypsum plaster breaking down due to moisture, but there is reason to be a bit considerate when choosing materials.
Good luck with moisture-safe building!
Before we delve further into the intricate and exciting world of moisture theories, I would like to point out the following advice for those who do not possess Poiu and the builder's theoretical knowledge:
- Moisture + organic material = mold
- OSB, gypsum boards, chipboards, etc., contain organic material.
- Walls and floors below ground, even if re-drained, are generally always moist enough for mold to grow if an organic material is applied (Yes, I know I'm generalizing and that there are exceptions, but they are vastly fewer than one might think).
- If you insert organic material into a damp structure, there is a risk that mold will grow.
- If you only use inorganic, for example, mineral products, you eliminate that risk.
It's actually not more complicated than that—if you want to be sure to avoid mold, remove the organic material. If you start experimenting, you can probably do well if you're skilled and the circumstances are in your favor, but personally, I may find it somewhat unnecessary.
Regarding gypsum use on damp walls, I urge a bit of caution. Gypsum-based products rarely withstand moisture very well, as often seen with gypsum-based leveling compounds (self-leveling compound) that break down when applied to damp basement floors. Personally, I have not seen any damage cases with gypsum plaster breaking down due to moisture, but there is reason to be a bit considerate when choosing materials.
Good luck with moisture-safe building!
Thank you, thank you. I have thoroughly read through many threads and received incredibly valuable tips on things beyond my own area of expertise. It's truly fantastic to have a forum like this where we consumers can exchange thoughts and experiences; the best guarantee for good construction work is a knowledgeable consumer who can and dares to make demands.
Regarding the construction choice for the basement walls, I would prefer to hold off on any "patent solutions" because there are always various circumstances that make the objects unique. However, regular plaster on an older basement interior wall seldom fails. It's advisable to paint with a silicate paint.
The downside is that it becomes very obvious that it's a basement, which you usually want to avoid experiencing. Additionally, there are some heat losses.
If you are going to insulate, you should do it from the outside (it is especially effective if you insulate the part of the foundation that is above the ground, where the heat leakage is particularly significant). If I were to frame the basement walls myself, I would use metal studs, foam boards, and Minerit.
Embarrassingly, I have drywall on some of my basement walls
, In my defense, I must say this was done before I started working as a moisture consultant, and the drywall is resting on a layer of foam board. Of course, this is not a great construction and is being gradually replaced.
Regarding the construction choice for the basement walls, I would prefer to hold off on any "patent solutions" because there are always various circumstances that make the objects unique. However, regular plaster on an older basement interior wall seldom fails. It's advisable to paint with a silicate paint.
The downside is that it becomes very obvious that it's a basement, which you usually want to avoid experiencing. Additionally, there are some heat losses.
If you are going to insulate, you should do it from the outside (it is especially effective if you insulate the part of the foundation that is above the ground, where the heat leakage is particularly significant). If I were to frame the basement walls myself, I would use metal studs, foam boards, and Minerit.
Embarrassingly, I have drywall on some of my basement walls
, In my defense, I must say this was done before I started working as a moisture consultant, and the drywall is resting on a layer of foam board. Of course, this is not a great construction and is being gradually replaced.I have built an extra room in my basement and I constructed a room within a room so to speak. Now I don't have any moisture problems, but I left a gap of at least ten cm all around, framed with steel studs, placed a 3a foamboard, then a small gap between the foamboard and the OSB board and drywall. I also installed 2 vents in each exterior wall for ventilation in the gap and a vent in the new room. If there is any moisture in a corner, I might have to run a dehumidifier in the adjacent storage room since the gap is open all around, it should help with dehumidifying.
I'm quite a novice when it comes to construction.
That's why I "hang out" here often.
I agree with Ivar - a fantastic forum for all sorts of musings.
Speaking of basements.
I live in a house from '56.
The basement consists of concrete walls and masonry walls.
The wall coverings consist of pine paneling in some areas and chipboard with a few centimeters of air gap on other walls.
No sign of moisture on these walls.
I'm going to try to fix up a corner of the basement myself that was previously an added paint cupboard.
Behind it was a plastered surface (now gone) and a masonry wall.
I was thinking of continuing with the pine paneling that is already there.
But what can I attach to the wall underneath? I have an area of about 5 cm that needs to be built out, including the paneling.
I'm considering drilling, plugging, and attaching one-inch lumber. Then nailing the paneling on top of this. Unconventional, isn't it?
On the other wall that faces the corner, there is a hatch, and then comes the chipboard.
There I will "frame" with custom-measured raw boards across and then attach the chipboard to these.
This way, paneling and chipboard meet in the corner.
But after all I've read, this doesn't seem like a great idea in a basement, even though the material is similar all around and seems to have held up well.
Metal studs and cement board are all well and good, but how on earth do you manage to make it look somewhat decent otherwise? Or is it just better to tear down the other instead and do it right from the start?
Damn, I should have become a carpenter instead of a farmhand... :-?
That's why I "hang out" here often.
I agree with Ivar - a fantastic forum for all sorts of musings.
Speaking of basements.
I live in a house from '56.
The basement consists of concrete walls and masonry walls.
The wall coverings consist of pine paneling in some areas and chipboard with a few centimeters of air gap on other walls.
No sign of moisture on these walls.
I'm going to try to fix up a corner of the basement myself that was previously an added paint cupboard.
Behind it was a plastered surface (now gone) and a masonry wall.
I was thinking of continuing with the pine paneling that is already there.
But what can I attach to the wall underneath? I have an area of about 5 cm that needs to be built out, including the paneling.
I'm considering drilling, plugging, and attaching one-inch lumber. Then nailing the paneling on top of this. Unconventional, isn't it?
On the other wall that faces the corner, there is a hatch, and then comes the chipboard.
There I will "frame" with custom-measured raw boards across and then attach the chipboard to these.
This way, paneling and chipboard meet in the corner.
But after all I've read, this doesn't seem like a great idea in a basement, even though the material is similar all around and seems to have held up well.
Metal studs and cement board are all well and good, but how on earth do you manage to make it look somewhat decent otherwise? Or is it just better to tear down the other instead and do it right from the start?
Damn, I should have become a carpenter instead of a farmhand... :-?
I have the same question as everyone else in this thread. How do you handle the inside basement walls to prevent moisture damage? Our hillside house is currently being built, and I need advice regarding the insulation of the basement wall which is completely underground. The rooms that have walls in that direction are the boiler room with a side entrance, the laundry room, the bathroom, and a bedroom with a window. (see drawings at www.villabroden.se - Drawings - floor plans)
The wall consists of uninsulated lecablock that are first plastered, then a foundation membrane on the plastering, drainage boards, and finally a geotextile that separates the drainage boards from the ground. We live on a gravel ridge, so the ground is very dry, but sometimes there can be heavy rain and a slope does absorb some rain (see The Flood under Photo Album on the website).
Should we insulate on the inside of the basement wall that is completely underground??? :-/
The wall consists of uninsulated lecablock that are first plastered, then a foundation membrane on the plastering, drainage boards, and finally a geotextile that separates the drainage boards from the ground. We live on a gravel ridge, so the ground is very dry, but sometimes there can be heavy rain and a slope does absorb some rain (see The Flood under Photo Album on the website).
Should we insulate on the inside of the basement wall that is completely underground??? :-/
Brodén: You already have insulation on the outside just as it should be! If you want to be completely sure to avoid moisture damage, you should not have anything on the inside of the basement wall except for plaster and permeable paint. If you install tiles or klinker in the bathroom, it should be without moisture barriers, except for possibly shower corners. I assume the bedroom is not meant to be continuous living space (since you say it should be entirely below ground) and can thus also make do with plastered walls, at least on those that are exterior walls.
The other methods discussed work well in many cases if you are careful and have luck on your side, but the above solution is virtually foolproof!
Good luck!
The other methods discussed work well in many cases if you are careful and have luck on your side, but the above solution is virtually foolproof!
Good luck!
Hello, as others have also pointed out, it is amazing what collective knowledge this forum possesses!
My partner and I are thinking about buying a townhouse, a so-called atrium house that is L-shaped with a basement and a courtyard "inside" the L. It has been previously re-drained with pordrän on the outer sides, but not the sides facing the courtyard—I don't know the current solution there—and now there are signs of moisture in the basement at one of these walls. There are dark marks in the joint between the floor and the wall. You can't feel any moisture with your fingers, but they are rather blunt tools for measuring moisture There is a flowerbed right above, so that might have something to do with it. We haven't seen any other signs of moisture on the other walls.
So, our plan is first and foremost to have someone who can inspect the house and measure how big the problems are. We are quite prepared to at least re-drain the walls facing the courtyard, but the question is what more should we do? What if the moisture comes directly from below?? Move on and look at another house instead? ;D
Unfortunately, I am a novice when it comes to basements, moisture, etc.—and according to ylven, it sounds like a basement room shouldn't be used as living space at all if it's completely underground? Is that the case? I know many people who had their childhood rooms in basements, but maybe it's not so healthy..?
What I also gather from this thread is that one should avoid organic materials in basements, but to what extent are we actually talking about? Suppose you have good drainage and minerit boards on the inside and paint them... Is it okay to furnish with wooden furniture, etc., then, or is there a risk in having such things against/near the walls? Excuse me if these questions are silly or so...
Basements seem dangerous..
My partner and I are thinking about buying a townhouse, a so-called atrium house that is L-shaped with a basement and a courtyard "inside" the L. It has been previously re-drained with pordrän on the outer sides, but not the sides facing the courtyard—I don't know the current solution there—and now there are signs of moisture in the basement at one of these walls. There are dark marks in the joint between the floor and the wall. You can't feel any moisture with your fingers, but they are rather blunt tools for measuring moisture
There is a flowerbed right above, so that might have something to do with it. We haven't seen any other signs of moisture on the other walls.So, our plan is first and foremost to have someone who can inspect the house and measure how big the problems are. We are quite prepared to at least re-drain the walls facing the courtyard, but the question is what more should we do? What if the moisture comes directly from below?? Move on and look at another house instead? ;D
Unfortunately, I am a novice when it comes to basements, moisture, etc.—and according to ylven, it sounds like a basement room shouldn't be used as living space at all if it's completely underground? Is that the case? I know many people who had their childhood rooms in basements, but maybe it's not so healthy..?
What I also gather from this thread is that one should avoid organic materials in basements, but to what extent are we actually talking about? Suppose you have good drainage and minerit boards on the inside and paint them... Is it okay to furnish with wooden furniture, etc., then, or is there a risk in having such things against/near the walls? Excuse me if these questions are silly or so...
Basements seem dangerous..
I have deliberately expressed myself a bit harshly. But my standpoint is that if you don't furnish a basement as living space, you won't have any problems there! If the moisture can move freely without getting trapped in any organic material, you won't get mold in the basement. Under such premises, a basement is the best foundation a house can have!
If you try to block the natural moisture migration, the problems will come like clockwork; painted minerite is probably fine if there's an air gap behind it that allows moisture to exit the wall! It should be fine to place wooden furniture there if the humidity isn't too high, or if they can't absorb moisture from the floor. Furnishing a basement as a living space without issues is quite extensive, and the slightest oversight can ruin the entire setup (e.g., sawdust on the floor under a Platon mat), and the health effects can be dramatic (at least for one of my friends who had a room in the basement).
If you try to block the natural moisture migration, the problems will come like clockwork; painted minerite is probably fine if there's an air gap behind it that allows moisture to exit the wall! It should be fine to place wooden furniture there if the humidity isn't too high, or if they can't absorb moisture from the floor. Furnishing a basement as a living space without issues is quite extensive, and the slightest oversight can ruin the entire setup (e.g., sawdust on the floor under a Platon mat), and the health effects can be dramatic (at least for one of my friends who had a room in the basement).
I have read through the thread and haven't become any wiser for it...
It seems like many have differing opinions on which way is best.
I am going to convert a storage room in the basement into a sound/cinema room and wonder which method is most suitable. The basement is partially below ground level and the house was built in the early 1900s. Is it 45mm aluminum studs and drywall that are appropriate?
Then I have some questions about the floor as well. Should there be an air gap there too?
I would like click flooring since it's easier but the alternative is to lay tiles, but then I would probably need underfloor heating?
It seems like many have differing opinions on which way is best.
I am going to convert a storage room in the basement into a sound/cinema room and wonder which method is most suitable. The basement is partially below ground level and the house was built in the early 1900s. Is it 45mm aluminum studs and drywall that are appropriate?
Then I have some questions about the floor as well. Should there be an air gap there too?
I would like click flooring since it's easier but the alternative is to lay tiles, but then I would probably need underfloor heating?
Hello,
I just signed a contract for our first house...a split-level house in Skåne, built in '67. It was inspected and after talking with the inspector, he recommended the following: NO ORGANIC MATERIALS. I said I wanted to install click flooring...Okay, he said, take everything out down to the concrete, disinfect it (however THAT is spelled), in other words, make sure it's completely clean. Put building plastic on the floor and a bit up the wall. Then you can add dampers and wooden floors. But he added that tiles are safer...
On the walls, I figured that an air gap was needed so I suggested my idea: Metal studs on the wall and drywall on top, possibly gluing styrofoam boards on the back of the drywall. AND make sure to leave a gap of about 5mm at the top and bottom. He commented that he himself had ONLY plastered and painted with some kind of breathable paint. But that it sounded like it could work. I had mentioned to him that I was going to dig around the house and install Isodrän boards and make sure the drainage works first.
Feel free to comment, but according to my head, THIS MUST work!! And we are going to live there, 4 kids and my wife and I.
Regarding Isodrän, does anyone know if you gain much by using Leca balls when you cover it up??
I just signed a contract for our first house...a split-level house in Skåne, built in '67. It was inspected and after talking with the inspector, he recommended the following: NO ORGANIC MATERIALS. I said I wanted to install click flooring...Okay, he said, take everything out down to the concrete, disinfect it (however THAT is spelled), in other words, make sure it's completely clean. Put building plastic on the floor and a bit up the wall. Then you can add dampers and wooden floors. But he added that tiles are safer...
On the walls, I figured that an air gap was needed so I suggested my idea: Metal studs on the wall and drywall on top, possibly gluing styrofoam boards on the back of the drywall. AND make sure to leave a gap of about 5mm at the top and bottom. He commented that he himself had ONLY plastered and painted with some kind of breathable paint. But that it sounded like it could work. I had mentioned to him that I was going to dig around the house and install Isodrän boards and make sure the drainage works first.
Feel free to comment, but according to my head, THIS MUST work!! And we are going to live there, 4 kids and my wife and I.
Regarding Isodrän, does anyone know if you gain much by using Leca balls when you cover it up??
Hello
Here I come with yet another question on the topic of drywall on basement walls. Is it okay to attach drywall directly to the basement wall if we are not talking about exterior walls? I have a basement space where the walls are quite uneven and was thinking that one could attach renovation drywall directly to the wall to avoid it protruding into the room too much and to easily smooth out the walls. Or does anyone have any other ideas? I don’t know if I can manage to skim coat the wall to make it as smooth as I want it. I've read about hat profiles in the thread, what are they and what is the advantage compared to metal studs? Does anyone have ideas on how I can best solve my problem? The room has 1 exterior wall that is not below ground, 1 wall is adjacent to the garage that is unheated, and the other 2 walls are interior walls.
Here I come with yet another question on the topic of drywall on basement walls. Is it okay to attach drywall directly to the basement wall if we are not talking about exterior walls? I have a basement space where the walls are quite uneven and was thinking that one could attach renovation drywall directly to the wall to avoid it protruding into the room too much and to easily smooth out the walls. Or does anyone have any other ideas? I don’t know if I can manage to skim coat the wall to make it as smooth as I want it. I've read about hat profiles in the thread, what are they and what is the advantage compared to metal studs? Does anyone have ideas on how I can best solve my problem? The room has 1 exterior wall that is not below ground, 1 wall is adjacent to the garage that is unheated, and the other 2 walls are interior walls.