Hello!
We are about to renovate the old fireplace in our newly bought 1940s house which is under renovation. I need some input on how we can fix this up in the best and simplest way. The red and white in its current state is not attractive. Inside?! Is it just the yellow color that works there? The photo was taken last night and only shows part of the fireplace.
Gratefully accepting tips.
We are about to renovate the old fireplace in our newly bought 1940s house which is under renovation. I need some input on how we can fix this up in the best and simplest way. The red and white in its current state is not attractive. Inside?! Is it just the yellow color that works there? The photo was taken last night and only shows part of the fireplace.
Gratefully accepting tips.
... now you probably need to explain a little more.
What do you mean by "inside"? Inside the actual fireplace, where the fire burns? What are you talking about in regards to yellow color? By "the red and white," do you mean the bricks and the mortar between them?
A first question is, will you be using the fireplace at all?
I can provide some general advice: Preferably, one doesn't paint an open fireplace or chimney, it is plastered with soft lime plaster. I honestly don't know if such can be found pre-colored if you want it in a color other than white, but maybe. Regular plastic paints (i.e., almost all available in standard paint stores) are absolutely not suitable as they get damaged by the heat when you use the fireplace (at least over time). This is due to the fact that the plastic in the paint cannot withstand the heat and that the bricks themselves expand, contract, and move slightly when you have a fire. There is traditional glue-based paint, but I've heard it's a bit tricky to use and I've never used it myself. There is also something called silicate paint, but I'm not sure if it works for this purpose or if it stays nice over time. Also, something called KC-paint which I also have never used.
If you simply want to cover the red brick, you could plaster the outside. The inside will soon turn black anyway if you use the fireplace. If you don't want to see into it, you could put up a substantial spark guard to obscure it, I suppose.
What do you mean by "inside"? Inside the actual fireplace, where the fire burns? What are you talking about in regards to yellow color? By "the red and white," do you mean the bricks and the mortar between them?
A first question is, will you be using the fireplace at all?
I can provide some general advice: Preferably, one doesn't paint an open fireplace or chimney, it is plastered with soft lime plaster. I honestly don't know if such can be found pre-colored if you want it in a color other than white, but maybe. Regular plastic paints (i.e., almost all available in standard paint stores) are absolutely not suitable as they get damaged by the heat when you use the fireplace (at least over time). This is due to the fact that the plastic in the paint cannot withstand the heat and that the bricks themselves expand, contract, and move slightly when you have a fire. There is traditional glue-based paint, but I've heard it's a bit tricky to use and I've never used it myself. There is also something called silicate paint, but I'm not sure if it works for this purpose or if it stays nice over time. Also, something called KC-paint which I also have never used.
If you simply want to cover the red brick, you could plaster the outside. The inside will soon turn black anyway if you use the fireplace. If you don't want to see into it, you could put up a substantial spark guard to obscure it, I suppose.
Thank you so much for the response.torparavgrund said:
I will try to be even clearer about what I mean. Yes, by inside I mean the bricks inside. From what I understand, it's about the yellow color (i.e., the heat-resistant), but as mentioned, everything turns black anyway, and the fireplace's depth might contribute to not noticing the yellow color. A grate could be a solution. Good tip! Then, as you say, you can plaster the outside of the fireplace in white.
It was wrong of me to imply or convey that it was about painting the inside, which does not seem possible. So re-plastering is probably the way to go, then paint it in matte white color. That part will not get as hot. Maybe matte white ceiling paint could work. I got that tip from a paint shop. Thank you very much for your input.
Not necessarily that it has to be yellow-colored bricks inside. A quick Google search of the different vendors' options seems to be all yellow... but as it looks now, it's red brick, and it looks like it's been fired without cracking? Because that's the only risk as far as I know. I've seen plenty of functional tile stoves and open fireplaces that were red brick all the way through. Maybe more common in the past?
When you fire the stove, the brick heats up and expands a bit, then shrinks again when it cools down. The difference between fire-resistant brick and regular brick is that the fire-resistant one is a bit "softer" and tolerates these movements better. That's why, for example, you never see ovens or chimneys entirely made of concrete; concrete is very hard, and therefore stiff, and would soon crack when heated. The same goes for the mortar/plaster - It has to be "soft" so that it tolerates movements.
And again, I would recommend skipping paint entirely. If you want it white, I've read that you can use lime plaster on the outside of the stove to make it completely white. I googled a bit more yesterday and found that it's still not too difficult to get hold of coloring pigments for plaster. Here, for example, they have a guide (for concrete, but the principle is the same) https://www.wsochcompany.se/guider-och-inspiration/betong-och-puts/farga-in-betong-med-fargpigment/
I've learned the hard way to take what they say in paint stores with a pinch of salt. They are not craftsmen; they are salespeople who have been taught certain basics and the most typical standard cases. Their goal is to sell paint to a customer who preferably becomes satisfied. Also, I'm not impressed with their pricing compared to quality (example: in Trygg Hansa's 2018 survey, Biltema's super cheap facade primer was among the best!). But paint and wood treatment are a jungle with many know-it-alls who consider themselves to know best.
When you fire the stove, the brick heats up and expands a bit, then shrinks again when it cools down. The difference between fire-resistant brick and regular brick is that the fire-resistant one is a bit "softer" and tolerates these movements better. That's why, for example, you never see ovens or chimneys entirely made of concrete; concrete is very hard, and therefore stiff, and would soon crack when heated. The same goes for the mortar/plaster - It has to be "soft" so that it tolerates movements.
And again, I would recommend skipping paint entirely. If you want it white, I've read that you can use lime plaster on the outside of the stove to make it completely white. I googled a bit more yesterday and found that it's still not too difficult to get hold of coloring pigments for plaster. Here, for example, they have a guide (for concrete, but the principle is the same) https://www.wsochcompany.se/guider-och-inspiration/betong-och-puts/farga-in-betong-med-fargpigment/
I've learned the hard way to take what they say in paint stores with a pinch of salt. They are not craftsmen; they are salespeople who have been taught certain basics and the most typical standard cases. Their goal is to sell paint to a customer who preferably becomes satisfied. Also, I'm not impressed with their pricing compared to quality (example: in Trygg Hansa's 2018 survey, Biltema's super cheap facade primer was among the best!). But paint and wood treatment are a jungle with many know-it-alls who consider themselves to know best.
Thanks for all the information! Great to get such comprehensive input. We will definitely fire it up. Yes, you're right about the paint store salespeople. Then again, there are many differing opinions among the professionals as well. I think we'll go with new plaster and possibly repair the existing brick inside since there is quite a large gap between some. However, the stove has been approved by the chimney sweep.
Great! If by "gap" between the stones you mean there's a bit of space between them, it's simply a matter of filling it with fireproof mortar (costs around 150 SEK for 5kg at the hardware store). Easy as pie, just brush the joints clean with a thin wire brush, vacuum out, mix new mortar and fill in. Use a so-called "ash vacuum" or equivalent; a regular vacuum cleaner gets damaged by sucking in ash and other extremely fine particles like sanding dust when you've sanded something like putty (the particles are so small they go through a regular filter and end up in the motor). If you already have a vacuum cleaner, I would say you can do the repair yourself for about 200-250 SEK in tools and materials.M MAJOhusprojekt said:
I can also say that a solid and powerful shop vacuum, I think I spent 3000 SEK on mine, is one of the single best investments I've ever made. So many times I've been so glad to have a proper machine that handles everything - gravel, dust, sanding dust, dirt, sawdust, even liquids. When remodeling, painting, wallpapering, or just cleaning out the car. Had mine for almost 4 years and have used it a lot and hard at times, still runs like new.
Hi and thanks for the response!
I've been a bit busy, hence the late reply.
It's great that it can be fixed so simply. I'll head to the builder’s market today and buy fireproof mortar.
We have a construction vacuum cleaner but it's only a 1000 SEK model. I'm unsure if it has a good filter and effectively sucks up dust. But better to use it than the regular vacuum cleaner.
How would you handle the front? That is, to remove the red brick around the edges. Mason over, but with what? And how do you get it completely straight? Maybe a silly question, but are there good tools for this, or is it just a matter of good and careful precision?
Thanks a lot for your great tips and advice.
Hm. Completely removing it might be very difficult; if it stood out more, you might dare to try with an angle grinder, but here I wouldn't have dared that.
I would probably do this: when you are applying plaster (or gypsum plaster or whatever you want to use) on the outside, apply it on the external red brick as well but let everything on the inside remain red. Maybe not exactly how you want it, but this is probably the best approach in this case. The hardcore version is, of course, to bring in a mason to redo it exactly as you want, but that costs.
Alternative two is to plaster a bit inside the fireplace as well, but you can expect it will be blackened by soot and embers. It will also create an "edge" with plaster, making it hard to rake out ashes from the fireplace, and you're likely to scrape this edge with the ash rake and soon damage it anyway. Assuming, of course, you use a rake and don't vacuum every time.
Getting it straight is actually usually pretty easy. The plaster often settles very evenly and nicely with the contours of what you're applying it to. If you want a completely straight edge where the plaster ends, you can attach a piece of wood or even some painter's tape that you then remove (provided you're not applying very thick plaster, the edge should remain straight when you take off the tape).
By the way, I forgot to say: make sure to check that the chimney and everything isn't already painted before you start plastering! If there's old paint on it already, the plaster won't adhere properly and will soon fall off. Try scraping a bit in an inconspicuous area, plaster comes off just as fine powder or maybe a little round crumb if you apply pressure. Paint comes off as small flakes.
Addition: if you want the stones at the front not to show at ALL, you can apply plaster in several layers until it looks completely smooth (it will slope from the opening outward a little, which could actually look quite "soft" and sleek). However, it's hard to judge from the picture if this is suitable; in the picture, it looks like it sticks out a maximum of about a centimeter or so, and much thicker than that might be difficult.
I would probably do this: when you are applying plaster (or gypsum plaster or whatever you want to use) on the outside, apply it on the external red brick as well but let everything on the inside remain red. Maybe not exactly how you want it, but this is probably the best approach in this case. The hardcore version is, of course, to bring in a mason to redo it exactly as you want, but that costs.
Alternative two is to plaster a bit inside the fireplace as well, but you can expect it will be blackened by soot and embers. It will also create an "edge" with plaster, making it hard to rake out ashes from the fireplace, and you're likely to scrape this edge with the ash rake and soon damage it anyway. Assuming, of course, you use a rake and don't vacuum every time.
Getting it straight is actually usually pretty easy. The plaster often settles very evenly and nicely with the contours of what you're applying it to. If you want a completely straight edge where the plaster ends, you can attach a piece of wood or even some painter's tape that you then remove (provided you're not applying very thick plaster, the edge should remain straight when you take off the tape).
By the way, I forgot to say: make sure to check that the chimney and everything isn't already painted before you start plastering! If there's old paint on it already, the plaster won't adhere properly and will soon fall off. Try scraping a bit in an inconspicuous area, plaster comes off just as fine powder or maybe a little round crumb if you apply pressure. Paint comes off as small flakes.
Addition: if you want the stones at the front not to show at ALL, you can apply plaster in several layers until it looks completely smooth (it will slope from the opening outward a little, which could actually look quite "soft" and sleek). However, it's hard to judge from the picture if this is suitable; in the picture, it looks like it sticks out a maximum of about a centimeter or so, and much thicker than that might be difficult.
Hello!
Thank you so much for all the great tips! I'm very grateful that you're taking the time to "help" come up with solutions.
I think the plan is to plaster up/fill in the red 'with mortar. I also don't think doing something inside is a good idea. Maybe just repair a little where it's damaged, but otherwise let it be. A nice grid will probably look good later.
It's good to hear that the mortar spreads relatively evenly because it wouldn't be fun to have it too uneven there. It's painted today, so the question is whether it's enough to just roughen the surface, i.e., sand it, or if all the paint needs to be removed.
The chimney sweep who inspected the stove said it wasn't difficult at all to repair cracks and so on. But everything depends on talent and meticulousness. It wouldn't look good to have a very uneven stove that's white and also in a living room.
We'll have to wait with bringing in a mason, which is probably quite expensive.