I got a response to my quote request today, and it was quite hefty. I need to analyze it a bit more, but the risk is that it won't be these. I am also still a bit skeptical of their energy calculation; the U-value on their 250-walls is 0.39 W/m2K, and I find it hard to see that you can really get an energy-efficient house without additional insulation, which you can't afford after such a frame... In the price we received, it's not just the frame material that is included, but assembly, slab, roof, and planning for electricity, plumbing & ventilation. But even if I adjust our calculations based on this, the final total will probably be 800-1200 SEK extra/sqm for Fagerdala's system. But as I said, I need to analyze it a bit more before I can sign off on those figures.tib said:
We're waiting for a quote on a lightweight concrete frame, where we have indications that it will be a good bit lower price, but on the other hand, the commitment is not the same. I looked at Dorocell before, but through the grapevine heard that it becomes more expensive than lightweight concrete; have you got a good target price on Dorocell including casting?
We paid approximately 180,000 for the entire basement foundation, including concrete and 20 cm of foam insulation under the basement floor, as well as materials for a pool 3*6m. This also included the sill block that Sundolitt sells in Norway. It is a styrofoam block which, once poured, forms a strong concrete base that the entire wall stands on. The advantage of Sundolitt's system compared to Dorocell in this case is that you can pour the entire wall including the base in one go. Dorocell's base block is open upwards on the sides, so the concrete pushes up there unless you wait for it to set or use thick concrete. We had self-compacting concrete, which is very runny, and it requires the block to be well-assembled, otherwise, there is a risk they will split when pouring.
We have a living area of 144 sqm. The basement, which is not yet furnished, but with a ceiling height of 2.5 meters and also 144 sqm, has a temperature of about 24 degrees at present. That is enough for the living floor to maintain 20 degrees. In the first year, we consumed 11,500 kWh, including all household electricity. Dividing that by 288 results in less than 40 kW/sqm. Now, it might be a bit naive to include the basement area in the living area's sqm, but I don't think the heating costs will be higher when we furnish the basement. Since it's already 24 degrees there, it should balance out when we lower the temperature there and instead ensure those degrees go to the upper floor.
We have a living area of 144 sqm. The basement, which is not yet furnished, but with a ceiling height of 2.5 meters and also 144 sqm, has a temperature of about 24 degrees at present. That is enough for the living floor to maintain 20 degrees. In the first year, we consumed 11,500 kWh, including all household electricity. Dividing that by 288 results in less than 40 kW/sqm. Now, it might be a bit naive to include the basement area in the living area's sqm, but I don't think the heating costs will be higher when we furnish the basement. Since it's already 24 degrees there, it should balance out when we lower the temperature there and instead ensure those degrees go to the upper floor.
Heinz-ponkenheintz said:
I have built the BV in Sundolitt KUB (similar to Dorocell). Something I missed in the budget was that you need special concrete that costs about twice as much as regular concrete. Additionally, you need to rent a pump truck for a minimum of eight hours.
I can check what mine cost altogether.
Gripen, my man!!!Gripenland said:Heinz-ponken
I have built the ground floor with Sundolitt KUB (similar to Dorocell). Something I missed in the budget was that you need special concrete that costs about twice as much as regular concrete. Additionally, you need to rent a pump truck for a minimum of eight hours.
I can check what mine cost all in all.
It would be absolutely brilliant if you could check that! Sometimes I start to wonder if our hubris in building such a large house is beginning to punish us. But the various quotes vary quite a bit; what appeals to me with Fagerdala's system is that we get a sealed house that we can finish ourselves in stages (which means my home theater room and the garage will be ready around 2015...)
The price I received from Fagerdala is about 9500:-/sqm BOA, which includes the slab, walls, floor structure, roof (including underlay), assembly, underfloor heating cast in self-leveling compound, electrical conduits+ventilation+sewage cast in the floor structure, as well as planning for electrical/telecom/network, HVAC, ventilation, and construction.
I am waiting for a quote on a frame with concrete prefabrication (Excellentvägg) and one with Siporex lightweight concrete; it will be interesting to see what those prices do to the entire production cost calculation.
But you probably can't set up Fagerdala without a crane either. Joking aside... it does require quite a bit of concrete, so a pump truck is a must. If you think otherwise, you can forget it. It's about 1.3 cubic meters/10 sqm of wall area. If I am not completely wrong, you don't have to have special concrete, but it makes it easier and results in a more homogeneous wall. Extra flow should be enough, and if I remember correctly, it's not that much more expensive.Gripenland said:Heinz-ponken
I can check what mine cost altogether.
Of course, a pump truck is a must, but I hadn't anticipated nine hours of constant pumping with overtime for the pump operator, etc.jerk said:
You're welcome to try with regular concrete and extra flow. I didn't want to take any chances and followed the retailer's specific recommendations. Self-compacting concrete (SKB) with 8mm ballast, special flow numbers, etc. The KUB system can't handle vibrating (it cracks the mold) so SKB is a must if you don't want walls full of air.
Hi!heintz said:
I talked to a contractor in Stockholm a few weeks ago to get some price indications and the prices I got were:
Finished slab about 2000 SEK/sqm
Wall about 1800 SEK/sqm
Concrete floor about 1700 SEK/sqm
This applies to Dorocell, both slab, walls, and concrete floor including concrete and labor.
It includes that they install for waterborne floor heating both in the slab and the concrete floor.
Then I suppose there will be some excavation work and gravel under the slab...
/tib
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Investigating lightweight construction techniques with the original stance that leca houses are essentially foam block houses and wooden houses are essentially mineral wool houses!
I think both the Fagerdala system and the block wall systems (such as Legolit, Thermomur, Sundolitt) seem good but not optimal.
Fagerdala's system still seems like a large apparatus for a do-it-yourselfer, Legolit is too thick (50 cm), and the other foam block wall systems have somewhat poor U-values. I'm considering casting EPS (cement + polystyrene) into foam block walls for maximum insulation and easy handling; one can then lay the walls oneself and pour in more insulation (likely from a truck).
I'm a bit worried that the wall might become too lightweight or not sufficiently stable, but I plan to cover the inside with drywall and the outside with fiber cement panels, which adds weight. This should result in better insulation values than a foam block wall with regular concrete filling. Does anyone have wise opinions? Am I off track?
I think both the Fagerdala system and the block wall systems (such as Legolit, Thermomur, Sundolitt) seem good but not optimal.
Fagerdala's system still seems like a large apparatus for a do-it-yourselfer, Legolit is too thick (50 cm), and the other foam block wall systems have somewhat poor U-values. I'm considering casting EPS (cement + polystyrene) into foam block walls for maximum insulation and easy handling; one can then lay the walls oneself and pour in more insulation (likely from a truck).
I'm a bit worried that the wall might become too lightweight or not sufficiently stable, but I plan to cover the inside with drywall and the outside with fiber cement panels, which adds weight. This should result in better insulation values than a foam block wall with regular concrete filling. Does anyone have wise opinions? Am I off track?
The question then is how much load, for example from roof trusses, such a wall can handle. But if you build a single-story house, it sounds like it should work. The question is whether it flows well enough. When you fill the polystyrene blocks with cement, you need good flow in the cement so it runs down properly. The question is whether it flows sufficiently with EPS. Otherwise, you might be able to cast a few courses first and then continue building with the next layer. In Norway on Sundolitt.no, they have more products than in Sweden, including sulblocken. Now there's a block that's 60 cm high, which facilitates and speeds up construction time. There are also better solutions for the corners now than a few years ago. I have built a basement with the old system and would gladly build an entire house with the new system if there is a next time. The question is also how it works with reinforcement in EPS. You certainly want it so the wall doesn't crack. But it may not be needed in EPS.
Yes, it might be too fragile to cast EPS in the insulation. The material can probably handle heavy loads downward but small side forces, such as wind. I'm starting to return to a wooden frame, built as plywood boxes filled with loose wool; Prefab. Regards