Does Isover's spacer sleeve provide an air gap (facade board)?

[xdigger]

Yes, you'll get air gaps that the air never reaches because you're only installing a horizontal batten.
Gaps and crevices are not enough.
There should be a continuous air gap of at least 25mm behind the entire facade panel.
There is plenty of research showing this and it's taught at all technical universities; by the way, I studied a master's in construction at Chalmers.

Can you refer to any detail where air is taken in via the corner boards? I would like to see this.

Since you don't bother to read my answers anyway, I'll end the discussion here.

I don't quite understand what your studies have to do with this; was the purpose perhaps to tell me that you are better than me?

I say, prove it, a source for that research would be nice.

 

[Prosit]

To return to a technical solution:
Vertical battens 12 mm at the innermost and 28 mm horizontal nail battens seem like a good solution for me.

 

[smurfen72]

Then it's probably easier to buy longer sockets if available.

 

[KnockOnWood]

Then it would be easier to buy longer sleeves if available.

But it's the battens attached to the sleeves that hold the insulation boards in place.

Longer sleeves = the insulation doesn't rest against the underlying wall = air comes in behind the new insulation = insulation loses its function. Unfortunately

 

[Kallebo]

But the boards are actually supposed to be attached with a lot of small buttons, not with battens.

It is possible to buy 50 mm boards and use 80 mm spacers, but it probably feels more stable to just use 12 mm battens in my case.

 

[smurfen72]

But it's the battens that are attached to the sleeves that hold the insulation boards in place.

Longer sleeves = the insulation isn't against the underlying wall = air gets behind the new insulation = the insulation loses its function. Unfortunately

The boards are attached with plastic discs about 50 mm in diameter, which are screwed or nailed in place. I believe there's a description of how many per m2, but it's probably not that crucial if it's on an already finished wall. However, if you're attaching boards directly to the frame, there's a risk they could blow away if you use too few plastic discs.

 

[RoBo]

Isover doesn't use additional spacers. I think one should follow the work instructions for the material being used. If there are problems, it's easier to make a claim.

http://www.isover.se/sites/isover.s...etsanvisning_isover_fasadskiva_30_2016-12.pdf

 

[hul]

Since you still don't care to read my answers, I'll end the discussion here.

I don't quite understand what your studies have to do with the matter, perhaps the intention was to tell me that you are better than me?

I say prove it, a source for that research would be nice.

Here is an article regarding air gaps, there are many if you choose to google a bit: http://vpp.sbuf.se/Public/Documents...1-5145-46af-b266-ca497cde4ec9/SBUF_1109_p.pdf

your turn to show facts that air gaps through a few mm in gaps are fully approved and details on taking in air through the edge boards.

 

[hul]

Research can be believed if conducted by independent researchers. The problem is that they are often paid by some actor, and the results are often skewed to the (right result). I'm convinced that an independent researcher does not equate a panel nailed with a 30 mm gap to the insulation with a one-step sealed facade, which is something completely different. Google it, and you'll see the difference.

If it appeared that I equated it with a one-step sealed facade, it was carelessly written, which it certainly was by me. What I meant is that it starts to resemble a one-step sealed facade; the function becomes similar. Where the pressure difference over the construction is between a damp part and a dry part, which is also the case in a one-step sealed facade, and the whole thing you want to avoid with a two-step sealed facade.

 

[smurfen72]

Isover doesn't use additional spacers. I think one should follow the work instructions for the material being used. If problems arise, it's easier to claim then.

[link]

You should probably read the instructions again, and you'll see that they do use spacers.

 

[smurfen72]

Here is an article regarding air gaps, there are plenty if you choose to google a bit:
[link]

your turn to show proof that an air gap of a few mm in gaps is fully approved and details on admitting air through the corner boards

It seems to be important to have a large air gap according to the study done on a plastered board completely without grooves or gaps on the backside, i.e., nothing that ts should have. It would be interesting to see if the study was done on a grooved wood panel, which would likely allow a lot more air to escape, do you have a link to such as well? Anyway, whether the drying takes 2 or 10 times longer doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't take so long that it becomes a problem, right? It's a bit amusing that Skanska was involved in the study; they are involved in most construction scandals but apparently learn nothing from their own studies.

 

[hul]

You should probably read the instructions once more, and you'll see that they use spacers.

Exactly, furthermore, I don't think one should blindly follow descriptions/instructions from suppliers.

These are often developed to be profit-maximizing and cost-efficient so that their system can be justified in a project.

If you know that they can easily be improved (as in this case with an extra support batten), I think you should do it, especially if it's your own house that you plan to live in.
To be completely honest, I personally think there is a lot done in various construction projects that I would never do at home.

Regarding support batten versus counter-batten and support batten, why do you lay counter- and support battens on the roof and not just a support batten? Is more ventilation required on the roof?

 

[SBH]

Well, why shouldn't we believe in research

because the research is conducted after a company has made a request.
not all research is independent.

 

[SBH]

Precis, dessutom tycker jag inte man ska stirra sig blint på beskrivningar/anvisningar från leverantörer.

Dessa är ofta framtagna för att vara vinstmaximerande och billiga så man ska kunna räkna hem deras system i ett projekt.

Vet man med sig att de enkelt kan förbättras (som i detta fallet med en extra bärläkt) så tycker jag man ska göra det, speciellt om det är ens egna hus som man planerar att leva i.
Ska jag vara helt ärlig så tycker jag personligen det är mycket man gör på olika byggprojekt som jag aldrig skulle göra hemma.

För övrigt gällande bärläkt kontra ströläkt samt bärläkt, varför lägger man strö- och bärläkt på tak och inte bara en bärläkt? Krävs det mer luftning på tak?

yet another thing that shows you don't quite have a clue.
ströläkt is used for both air circulation and moisture to be able to run and not collect on the roof.

 

[hul]

It seems that a large air gap is important according to the study conducted on a plastered board entirely without grooves or gaps on the back, which is not what the OP should have. It would be interesting to see if the study was conducted on a grooved wood panel, which would likely let out a lot more air - do you have a link to such a study? Anyway, whether the drying takes 2 or 10 times longer doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't take so long that it causes problems, right? It's a bit funny that Skanska was involved in the study; they are involved in most building scandals but apparently learn nothing from their own studies.

What do you mean is the difference? The point is that a large air gap is required.

Of course, it doesn't matter how long it takes if it doesn't create problems, but this indeed creates big problems.
I don't think anyone wants moisture pressing into the facade when it can be easily avoided.

Skanska is one of the world's largest construction companies (the largest depending on how you count), of course they're going to draw "short straws." But don't you follow GVK and BBR either, Skanska is involved there too?

By the way, which building scandals are you thinking of?