The same thought crossed my mind... if so much moisture creeps up there, there's probably something else behind it as well... Things are constantly developing, and so is probably concrete. It's surely better today than it was 20 years ago.arny said:
Another thought occurred to me... Construction adhesive becomes hard as a rock and sticks like glue, so wouldn't this help prevent moisture from creeping up into the joists if applied in an even layer over the entire joist? Or is there something in such a hard adhesive that absorbs moisture extra well?
Old topic but still 
Moved into a house in 2002 where in the 80s they had placed the "heart wall" in a house directly on the concrete slab without a moisture barrier. It wasn't rotten but yes it was quite severely affected after 2+ years. A hefty cost of 50-70,000 for the seller to even get it sold. ^
I wouldn't take any chances at all with wood on concrete without a moisture barrier (age-resistant).
Stumbled in here now as I am going to set up an interior wall in the basement and it will be metal studs all the way...
Moved into a house in 2002 where in the 80s they had placed the "heart wall" in a house directly on the concrete slab without a moisture barrier. It wasn't rotten but yes it was quite severely affected after 2+ years. A hefty cost of 50-70,000 for the seller to even get it sold. ^
I wouldn't take any chances at all with wood on concrete without a moisture barrier (age-resistant).
Stumbled in here now as I am going to set up an interior wall in the basement and it will be metal studs all the way...
A
Alfred Jonsson
Banned
· Västra Götaland
· 208 posts
Alfred Jonsson
Banned
- Västra Götaland
- 208 posts
Then you get rust insteadStellemark said:Old topic but still
Moved into a house in 2002 where in the 80s they had placed the "heart wall" in a house directly on the concrete slab without a moisture barrier. It wasn't rotten but yes, it was quite severely damaged after 2+ years. An expensive cost of 50-70,000 for the one who sold the house to even get it sold. ^
I wouldn't take any chances with wood on concrete without a moisture barrier (durable)
Spun in here now as I'm going to put an interior wall in the basement and it will be steel studs all the way...
I have also been thinking about this and asked around. Most people seem to glue nowadays. The question is whether the house you mention above has the type of foundation that newly built houses have today. Like 300 mm insulation + underfloor heating. That should make quite a big difference, right?Stellemark said:Old topic but still
Moved into a house in 2002 where in the 80s they had placed the "heart wall" directly on the concrete slab without a moisture barrier. It wasn't rotten, but yes, it was quite significantly affected after 2+ years. Tough cost of 50-70,000 for the one who sold the house to even get it sold. ^
I wouldn't take any chances with wood on concrete without a moisture barrier (durable).
Popped in here now because I'm going to install an interior wall in the basement and it will be steel studs all the way...
/Johan
I'm lifting this thread as I have a similar - but not exactly the same - problem.
I have a very thin concrete floor in a heated room in an old outhouse, which has been carelessly cast directly on the earthen ground. I want to frame this to install a plank floor.
Before seeing the poor condition of the floor, I had planned to screw wooden battens into the floor with moisture protection under the battens. Now it's doubtful if the concrete can hold screws, and I'm considering alternative solutions.
Gluing the wooden battens directly to the concrete doesn't feel ideal.
Those of you who have used steel frames, how have you attached what's on top of the frames? Could it work to attach floor planks to steel frames (I'm not planning to have sheet material on top of the frames)?
Another idea is to glue a U-shaped metal rail to the concrete and glue (or possibly place screws horizontally through the rail's walls and the batten) the wooden battens to the rail. Could that be sensible?
I have a very thin concrete floor in a heated room in an old outhouse, which has been carelessly cast directly on the earthen ground. I want to frame this to install a plank floor.
Before seeing the poor condition of the floor, I had planned to screw wooden battens into the floor with moisture protection under the battens. Now it's doubtful if the concrete can hold screws, and I'm considering alternative solutions.
Gluing the wooden battens directly to the concrete doesn't feel ideal.
Those of you who have used steel frames, how have you attached what's on top of the frames? Could it work to attach floor planks to steel frames (I'm not planning to have sheet material on top of the frames)?
Another idea is to glue a U-shaped metal rail to the concrete and glue (or possibly place screws horizontally through the rail's walls and the batten) the wooden battens to the rail. Could that be sensible?
Use a steel track for the sill which you glue with suitable assembly adhesive, then you frame as usual.
I've even used double-sided tape of good quality when we built walls in an open-plan office; also torn down walls of the same and it sticks firmly, I can assure you!
I've even used double-sided tape of good quality when we built walls in an open-plan office; also torn down walls of the same and it sticks firmly, I can assure you!
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You mean my last option? How do you attach the rule to the steel rail, also with glue?
It is thus about rules for floors.
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The polyurethane glue should act as a moisture barrier in itself, but...
The heating coils should be easy to find. An IR camera and a laid-out measuring tape will show the measurements of where they are.
The heating coils should be easy to find. An IR camera and a laid-out measuring tape will show the measurements of where they are.
If I were in your case, I would build a framework of wood in a suitable dimension (depending on how high it needs to be built), let's say 45x70, which you attach to the wall where possible. Then you create support points for the battens on cc60 with plastic shims that you secure with a concrete screw through the battens, mostly to fix the shims. Alternative 2 is expensive pre-drilled leveling battens with plastic screws.
The union, thanks, that was an interesting new perspective!
I dismissed Nivell because it also screws the framework pointwise into the concrete. I want a solution that spreads the pressure against the concrete slab, or at least does not penetrate the concrete. Now I don't want a build height greater than about 50mm up to the top edge of the joists, but your solution allows moisture protection under the joists without screwing into the concrete. Your frame variant, as you write, can also be done with the help of Nivell joists and screws.
I’ll have to mull over that for a while!
I dismissed Nivell because it also screws the framework pointwise into the concrete. I want a solution that spreads the pressure against the concrete slab, or at least does not penetrate the concrete. Now I don't want a build height greater than about 50mm up to the top edge of the joists, but your solution allows moisture protection under the joists without screwing into the concrete. Your frame variant, as you write, can also be done with the help of Nivell joists and screws.
I’ll have to mull over that for a while!