I will be putting up interior walls in our house with a slab with embedded underfloor heating loops. My carpenter suggested that the floor studs be attached with adhesive instead of screws/nail plugs, to eliminate the risk of drilling into the floor heating pipes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it common to do this? Are there any problems with this? Anyone have tips to facilitate the installation?
How was the carpenter planning to prevent moisture from migrating from the concrete to the studs?
If you're using wooden studs, you should naturally have plastic and/or tar paper against the concrete.
If you're not sure about the heating coils, you'll need to find out how deep they are in the concrete! I have them closest to the foam, then the reinforcing mesh on spacers, and the slab thickness is 10 cm. In theory, it should be possible to drill ~5 cm without problems, but if you don't get answers to your questions, you can't really take a chance
The safe method would be to fasten the wall studs to the ceiling and point glue the wooden stud to the concrete. Where you don't glue, you should naturally have plastic/tar paper as mentioned above...
You can also use a metal stud as a bottom layout and use wood as the framework.
If you're not sure about the heating coils, you'll need to find out how deep they are in the concrete! I have them closest to the foam, then the reinforcing mesh on spacers, and the slab thickness is 10 cm. In theory, it should be possible to drill ~5 cm without problems, but if you don't get answers to your questions, you can't really take a chance
The safe method would be to fasten the wall studs to the ceiling and point glue the wooden stud to the concrete. Where you don't glue, you should naturally have plastic/tar paper as mentioned above...
You can also use a metal stud as a bottom layout and use wood as the framework.
I personally don't believe there should be any problems with drilling and screwing. On one hand, there shouldn't be any loops under the walls, and on the other hand, the loops lie beneath the reinforcement, meaning almost 10 cm down in the concrete. It was the carpenter who suggested adhesive bonding to completely eliminate the risk of drilling into pipes (someone could have measured incorrectly, and in the worst case, some underfloor heating loop might have floated up higher than it should). It's like having both suspenders and a belt. But since I got the suggestion, I want to know if anyone else has done it this way. Is it customary?
My carpenter used concrete nails that he drove down a maximum of 5mm into the slab.
Have talked more with the carpenter and his colleagues (all at the same company). They say that they never drill into tiles with underfloor heating pipes. They use a polyurethane adhesive that expands and fills well. They don't believe that moisture migration from the slab to the studs should be a problem. A slab with underfloor heating should not contain much moisture. No one else who has glued the interior walls?
Have the same conditions as Arny and have glued the interior walls with construction adhesive. When I then, with the studs up, changed my mind and decided to move a wall a few decimeters, it was very easy (too easy?) to release the joint with a few well-aimed blows with the crowbar. Now considering supplementing with steel nails a few mm down into the concrete.
I don't know if it depends on which glue you use, but the carpenter warned against setting the studs wrong with the polyurethane glue. He said that it's not the joint that gives way if you try to remove a stud, but the stud itself that breaks. You have to scrape off the remains of the stud.
It doesn't seem like there are many here who have used glue for attaching partition walls, despite my carpenters' claim that "that's how it's done today."
It doesn't seem like there are many here who have used glue for attaching partition walls, despite my carpenters' claim that "that's how it's done today."
Saturnus wrote:
If there should be belt and suspenders when mounting studs against a floor with underfloor heating, it should also apply to moisture.
Then I wonder, haven't builders heard of digital cameras and reference points?
From moisture in the house that has traveled down into the slab. From the moisture in the ground under the slab. From possible capillary absorption of water. Plus all other faults and deficiencies.
If there should be belt and suspenders when mounting studs against a floor with underfloor heating, it should also apply to moisture.
Then I wonder, haven't builders heard of digital cameras and reference points?
I personally believe I have control over where the underfloor heating pipes are located, so I probably dare to drill into the slab (How deep have those of you who drilled drilled? What fastening elements have you used, screws and plugs/nail plugs/expansion spikes/expansion bolts/other?)
From the carpenter's point of view, I understand that he does not want to drill. If he were to drill into a pipe, there would be many long discussions about whose fault it is. The safest option is not to drill. Expecting a carpenter to interpret digital images and take responsibility for the interpretation is unreasonable, and the carpenter is usually not present when the slab is cast.
Judging by this thread, it seems not many have chosen to use glue.
From the carpenter's point of view, I understand that he does not want to drill. If he were to drill into a pipe, there would be many long discussions about whose fault it is. The safest option is not to drill. Expecting a carpenter to interpret digital images and take responsibility for the interpretation is unreasonable, and the carpenter is usually not present when the slab is cast.
Judging by this thread, it seems not many have chosen to use glue.
We have used both nail plugs and steel nails, both 70mm long so they reach about 25mm into the concrete.
You definitely don't want to risk nailing into the pipes even if the risk is small since they are located at the bottom of the slab.
You definitely don't want to risk nailing into the pipes even if the risk is small since they are located at the bottom of the slab.
I have now talked to a few different people and received the following responses:
Two other carpenters from different firms: glue the wooden studs directly to the concrete. "That's how it's done today."
Building materials supplier: Generally, it's not recommended to place wood directly against concrete, but if you have so much moisture in the slab that it becomes a problem with the floor studs, you have other, larger problems. To do it properly, you should use metal studs against the concrete.
Quality manager: OK to glue the wooden studs. "That's how it's done today."
Homeowners' technical building advice: Did not dare to give any recommendations.
So, what conclusions should be drawn from this? It seems that gluing wooden studs directly to the concrete is very common. Everyone I spoke with agreed that if the concrete slab releases so much moisture that it becomes a problem for the floor studs, this is a minor issue in context. However, to do it really correctly, metal studs should be used against the slab. Everyone seems reluctant to drill into the slab.
Two other carpenters from different firms: glue the wooden studs directly to the concrete. "That's how it's done today."
Building materials supplier: Generally, it's not recommended to place wood directly against concrete, but if you have so much moisture in the slab that it becomes a problem with the floor studs, you have other, larger problems. To do it properly, you should use metal studs against the concrete.
Quality manager: OK to glue the wooden studs. "That's how it's done today."
Homeowners' technical building advice: Did not dare to give any recommendations.
So, what conclusions should be drawn from this? It seems that gluing wooden studs directly to the concrete is very common. Everyone I spoke with agreed that if the concrete slab releases so much moisture that it becomes a problem for the floor studs, this is a minor issue in context. However, to do it really correctly, metal studs should be used against the slab. Everyone seems reluctant to drill into the slab.