Asbestos question again

[Satsuki]

The black adhesive was under the red ones, not the orange ones. That's what the company said. They said the adhesive almost certainly contained asbestos but that there was no danger as long as it wasn't sanded or the red tiles lifted. Instead, they wanted to inspect the cement that was on top of the old red asbestos-glued tiles, the one used to cover them with the newer orange tiles.

Just a short comment, for clarity's sake - it's called ASBESTOS (not asbets or asbests or any other variant).

No one can say anything about asbestos content without analyzing a sample. I would never trust what anyone assumed; if it's important to you, you should send a sample for analysis.

Can you explain the age and order again? As you probably know, asbestos was totally banned in the early '80s, but it had been prohibited in certain applications even earlier...

 

[Albin Johansson3]

A bit confusing. I interpret you like this:
In your kitchen, there are two layers of flooring. The bottom layer consists of red tiles attached with black glue. Analysis suggests this contains asbestos. The house is from the 60s or 70s (do you not know exactly?), so it's entirely reasonable that the floor is attached with asbestos-containing material.
The grout between the red tiles hasn't been analyzed. It could potentially also contain asbestos.
On top of the red tiles, there was/is another layer of orange tiles. As others have said, they are likely newer (style-wise, they are from the 90s) and therefore installed without asbestos-containing material. Have you done an analysis on these?

If you can settle for removing the top layer and keeping the red tiles under your new floor, you don't need to worry. If you want to remove the red ones, you should have an asbestos remover do it.

Exactly. You interpreted it completely correctly. The company didn't analyze the glue under the red tiles; they just knocked off a piece, taped over where they had hit, and then checked and said it was almost guaranteed to be asbestos glue, so it would just be an extra cost for me to send it for analysis.

But they said that if it was the case that there was only asbestos in the glue under the red tiles, the house wasn't contaminated even if some of them had cracked since the glue was on the undersides of the tiles.

I'm not sure, but I think the red tiles were something plastic-like?

Instead, they wanted to send a piece of the cement that lay on top of the red ones and said it was that which was dusty and could potentially spread asbestos.

They never checked the grout between the old red tiles. I wasn't the one who removed the 90s tiles; it was my father (who doesn't care about safety).

He did it by knocking them off with a screwdriver and a hammer (many of them cracked),

The red asbestos tiles should not be torn up but instead have a new floor laid over them, but I was worried that asbestos could potentially have been spread due to his primitive way of just knocking off the old top tiles and their cement. Someone I spoke to on Reddit described it as like when you rip off a band-aid and hair comes with it, that it could have pulled some of what was underneath along with it.

 

[Satsuki]

And how old is the house and when were the orange tiles of unknown material (likely) laid?

You don’t need to worry about the house being "contaminated," but you can wet wipe the entire floor and walls if you are concerned.
As far as I know, they didn’t lay asbestos as floor tiles indoors; however, there might be asbestos in some floor tiles that were glued to the floor, but these are thin tiles that you can hardly chip a corner from.

So if I understand correctly, your dad has removed a layer of red tiles that were set with gray adhesive on top of a layer of orange tiles that (according to a company) are likely glued with black adhesive?
And you’re not planning to remove the orange floor but just lay a new floor on top of it?
In that case, I wouldn’t worry at all... Possible (nothing is certain without analysis) asbestos is buried under two floors and in a bound form.

 

[Albin Johansson3]

Just a short comment, for clarity's sake - it's called ASBEST (not asbets or asbests or any other variant)

No one can say anything about asbestos content without analyzing a sample. I would never rely on what someone assumed, if it's important to you, you should send a sample for analysis.

Can you explain the age and sequence again? As you probably know, asbestos was completely banned in the early 80s but it had been banned in certain applications before that...

Thanks, I'll try to improve my spelling.

Regarding the sample, do you mean like an air particle test? As I said, they took a piece of the cement as they said that it was the cement that was causing the dust and if the asbestos adhesive was only on the underside of the lowest tiles, it wouldn't be a problem.

Regarding the age of the house, I don't know exactly but it's from somewhere between the 60s and 70s.

I'll see if I can explain the sequence of events more chronologically.

1. The top orange tiles were removed with a hammer and screwdriver.

2. There were red tiles underneath, they seem to be somewhat plastic-like (but I'm unsure since I haven't dared to touch them, and I've only gone by how my dad described them as he was the one who decided to remove the old ones).

3. I called a company that then chipped off a piece of the red tiles and taped over where they chipped away.

4. They looked at the piece, saw that there was black adhesive underneath, said that it was almost certainly asbestos adhesive and therefore no point in sending it in.

5. Instead, they thought it was better to analyze a piece of the cement as they said that it was the one that could spread the most.

6. They said it was okay that some of the red tiles were slightly damaged as the adhesive was on the underside. I'm unsure if there was anything between the red tiles or if it was just underneath.

 

[Satsuki]

Thanks, I will try to improve my spelling.

Regarding the test, do you mean something like an air particle test? They took a piece of the cement, as they said that was what was dusting, and if the asbestos glue was only on the underside of the lowest tiles, it wouldn't be a problem.

I'll see if I can explain the sequence of events more chronologically.

1. The top orange tiles were removed with a hammer and screwdriver.

2. There were red tiles underneath, they seem to be somewhat plastic-like (but I'm unsure since I haven't dared to touch them, going only on my dad's description as he's the one who decided to remove the old ones).

3. I called a company that then chipped off a piece of the red tiles and taped over the spot where they removed it.

4. They examined the piece, saw there was black glue underneath, said it was almost certainly asbestos glue, and therefore there was no point in sending it in.

5. Instead, they thought it was better to analyze a piece of the cement since they said that could spread the most.

6. They said it was okay that some of the red tiles were slightly damaged since the glue was on the underside. I'm unsure if there was anything between the red tiles or if it was just underneath.

Thanks! I understand a bit better now! How old is the house, are the bottom tiles original, and how old are the tiles your dad hacked away (you wrote the 90s, by then asbestos was banned long ago)?

 

[Albin Johansson3]

Thank you! Then I understand a bit better!
How old is the house, are the lower tiles original and how old are the tiles your dad chipped off (you wrote the 90s, by then asbestos had long been banned)

I'm a bit unsure about that, but I believe the top ones should be quite safe. Many people both here and the company guys thought they looked too new to be original tiles. I think my dad said they were put there just before we bought the house, which was around 2013. However, he tends to mix things up a bit, so take it with a pinch of salt.

I don't really know if the bottom ones were the original tiles, but I would guess so.

What worries me most is if the ones underneath were damaged by his incorrect removal method and thus spread asbestos.

Unfortunately, I can't provide an exact construction date for the house itself, I only know it was built sometime between the 60s and 70s.

 

[Satsuki]

If the top tiles were installed after 1982, neither the tiles nor the adhesive they are set in contain any asbestos.
In that case, it leaves the lower tiles, which might be glued with black adhesive, and depending on the material/brand/manufacturer, the tile itself might also contain asbestos. Now the top layer is gone, and you are going to lay new ones over it, instead of removing the older tiles. Then there is nothing to worry about 👍
Good luck with the renovation!

 

[Albin Johansson3]

And how old is the house and when were the orange tiles of unknown material (likely) laid?

You don't need to worry about the house being "contaminated," but you can wipe the entire floor and walls if you're concerned.
As far as I know, they didn't use eternit as floor tiles indoors; however, there might be asbestos in some floor tiles that were glued to the floor, but they are thin tiles that are unlikely to have a corner chipped off.

So, if I understand correctly, your dad removed a layer of red tiles with gray fix on top of a layer of orange tiles that (according to a company) are likely glued with black adhesive?
And you don't plan to remove the orange floor but just lay a new floor on top?
In that case, I wouldn't worry at all... Any potential (nothing is certain without analysis) asbestos is buried under two floors and in bound form.

The colors are reversed but otherwise correct 😅.

"...however, there might be asbestos in some floor tiles that were glued to the floor, but they are thin tiles that are unlikely to have a corner chipped off."

The tile they chipped a piece from was quite thin, a little thinner than a ceramic tile but thicker than paper, maybe like a packing box wall?

Initially, it was supposed to be sent in, but when they saw the adhesive on the underside, they didn't think it was necessary.

"And you don't plan to remove the orange floor but just lay a new floor on top?"
Exactly, as I said, I'm just worried that he might have damaged the ones underneath while chipping the ones on top, so even if they're covered afterward, they might have already spread some asbestos when he chipped the ones over.

 

[Satsuki]

The colors are reversed but otherwise correct 😅.

"...however, there might be asbestos in some of the floor tiles that were glued to the floor, but these are thin tiles that you can hardly chip off a corner from."

The tile they chipped off a piece from was quite thin, a little thinner than a ceramic tile but thicker than paper, maybe like the wall of a moving box?

Initially, it was supposed to be sent in, but when they saw the glue on the underside, they didn't think it was worthwhile.

"And you're not planning to remove the orange floor, just lay new flooring on top?"
Exactly, as I said, I'm just concerned that he damaged them underneath while chipping away at the top ones, so even if they are then covered over, maybe they've already spread some asbestos when he struck the ones on top.

But if he hasn't ripped up all the tiles, probably not much has come loose, and the house is hardly asbestos-contaminated. However, there is a bit of dust when you chip away tiles + adhesive; it's not healthy to inhale that.

If you now strongly suspect that the underlying layer contains asbestos, you can write on them or stick a note/letter with the message before you lay the new floor. Maybe someone in the future will want to remove everything, and then it's good for them to know?

 

[Düsseldorff]

The black glue was under the red ones, not the orange ones. That's what the company said. They said the glue almost certainly contained asbestos but that it wasn't a problem as long as it wasn't sanded or the red tiles lifted up. Instead, they wanted to check the cement that was on top of the old red asbestos-glued tiles, the one used to cover them with the newer orange tiles.

Okay. Black glue under the bottom layer of tiles. If it's black glue, it contains asbestos, that's kind of the thing with black glue. But if you're not going to break up those tiles, then as mentioned, it doesn't matter. Leave it be, black glue is an incredibly strong adhesive as long as it's left alone.