Hello everyone,
I'm in the process of sketching the exterior walls (which shouldn't be too thick) for our extension that will include a bathroom.
Initially, I thought of this setup, from the outside in:
22 horizontal single beveled panel
20 battens for ventilation
wind barrier
170 vertical stud
plastic
45 horizontal stud (c-c30)
13 Glasroc
But then I realized that it might need to be 70mm on the inside to comply with the new bathroom regulations. Is that the case?
And if so, would it be better with:
22 horizontal single beveled panel
20 battens for ventilation
wind barrier
145 vertical stud
plastic
70 horizontal stud (c-c30)
13 Glasroc
Or wait, aren't you even allowed to have wooden studs between the plastic and Glasroc, or should you perhaps skip the plastic?
What do you think?
Does it matter?
Does anyone have a completed wall proposal of about 300mm?
thanks.
I'm in the process of sketching the exterior walls (which shouldn't be too thick) for our extension that will include a bathroom.
Initially, I thought of this setup, from the outside in:
22 horizontal single beveled panel
20 battens for ventilation
wind barrier
170 vertical stud
plastic
45 horizontal stud (c-c30)
13 Glasroc
But then I realized that it might need to be 70mm on the inside to comply with the new bathroom regulations. Is that the case?
And if so, would it be better with:
22 horizontal single beveled panel
20 battens for ventilation
wind barrier
145 vertical stud
plastic
70 horizontal stud (c-c30)
13 Glasroc
Or wait, aren't you even allowed to have wooden studs between the plastic and Glasroc, or should you perhaps skip the plastic?
What do you think?
Does it matter?
Does anyone have a completed wall proposal of about 300mm?
thanks.
Hello,
first of all: Which bathroom rules are you referring to in your text? Are there any? I don't think so!
However, there are two industry organizations that each issue guidelines and recommendations. Tradesmen in each industry adhere to these if they are serious. One is BKR (Byggkeramikrådet) and the other is GVK (Golvbranschens våtrumskontroll). I have personally looked at the latter before we decided to invest in approved plastic flooring in the wet areas. If you want to read more, click on these links:
http://www.bkr.se/branschregler/branschregler2007.pdf
http://www.gvk.se/upload/SakraVatrum2008April-2.pdf
So to some extent, it's possible to say that the surface of the bathrooms (plastic flooring or tiles) dictates the wall construction. Start there by deciding what you want. For us, the choice was easy. Admittedly, it's trendy with flashy tiled bathrooms, but our stick-built house, as the name suggests, is made of wood, and therefore a living material. Living materials have a certain tendency to move. If you have plastic flooring on walls and floors, it has to move a lot before the flooring cracks. If it's tiled, it's a different matter. I have a colleague at work who remodeled his bathroom twice before now once again installing plastic flooring instead of the tiles that had been up for about five years!!
As for the exterior wall construction, we have: (all measurements in mm)
22 panel
22 nail battens
9 external gypsum board
45x45 horizontal stud (for 45 insulation)
170x45 vertical stud
vapor barrier
45x45 horizontal
11 OSB
13 gypsum
and interior wall:
13 gypsum
11 OSB
70x45 stud
11 OSB
13 gypsum
Note As you can see, we have regular gypsum boards everywhere, even in the bathrooms. I have called and talked to people at GVK and with a claims adjuster at my insurance company, as well as with my quality manager. Green light for regular gypsum everywhere. Of course, provided the plastic flooring is approved for wet rooms (Vapor permeance > 1000000 s/m).
If you want to tile in the bathroom, you should probably read BKR's industry rules very carefully.
13 gypsum
first of all: Which bathroom rules are you referring to in your text? Are there any? I don't think so!
However, there are two industry organizations that each issue guidelines and recommendations. Tradesmen in each industry adhere to these if they are serious. One is BKR (Byggkeramikrådet) and the other is GVK (Golvbranschens våtrumskontroll). I have personally looked at the latter before we decided to invest in approved plastic flooring in the wet areas. If you want to read more, click on these links:
http://www.bkr.se/branschregler/branschregler2007.pdf
http://www.gvk.se/upload/SakraVatrum2008April-2.pdf
So to some extent, it's possible to say that the surface of the bathrooms (plastic flooring or tiles) dictates the wall construction. Start there by deciding what you want. For us, the choice was easy. Admittedly, it's trendy with flashy tiled bathrooms, but our stick-built house, as the name suggests, is made of wood, and therefore a living material. Living materials have a certain tendency to move. If you have plastic flooring on walls and floors, it has to move a lot before the flooring cracks. If it's tiled, it's a different matter. I have a colleague at work who remodeled his bathroom twice before now once again installing plastic flooring instead of the tiles that had been up for about five years!!
As for the exterior wall construction, we have: (all measurements in mm)
22 panel
22 nail battens
9 external gypsum board
45x45 horizontal stud (for 45 insulation)
170x45 vertical stud
vapor barrier
45x45 horizontal
11 OSB
13 gypsum
and interior wall:
13 gypsum
11 OSB
70x45 stud
11 OSB
13 gypsum
Note As you can see, we have regular gypsum boards everywhere, even in the bathrooms. I have called and talked to people at GVK and with a claims adjuster at my insurance company, as well as with my quality manager. Green light for regular gypsum everywhere. Of course, provided the plastic flooring is approved for wet rooms (Vapor permeance > 1000000 s/m).
If you want to tile in the bathroom, you should probably read BKR's industry rules very carefully.
13 gypsum
You get 190mm in the wall with the vertical studs, i.e., 145+45mm. And you use cc60 for the vertical ones, so you place the 45s at the center-to-center distance that the boards you are going to use require to be approved according to the existing recommendations.
I think I'll still have tiles on the walls, even if it's trickier.
But I guess you need to have steel studs between the plastic and the waterproofing layer?
Because you do need plastic in the exterior walls even if you have a waterproofing layer, right?
But I guess you need to have steel studs between the plastic and the waterproofing layer?
Because you do need plastic in the exterior walls even if you have a waterproofing layer, right?
absolutely no plastic where you have waterproofing, then there will be a pocket between the plastic and the waterproofing (which is also plastic...) where the air doesn't go anywhere.
so again, no plastic behind the waterproofing. I've never heard of anyone using steel studs, but if you want to install both plastic and waterproofing, then steel is a must, I guess. but I don't know anything about that.
so again, no plastic behind the waterproofing. I've never heard of anyone using steel studs, but if you want to install both plastic and waterproofing, then steel is a must, I guess. but I don't know anything about that.
The moisture always gets in somehow, even if you just happen to splash a little water on the wall before the waterproofing goes up. Or perhaps the moisture content in the studs is too high, or someone at the hardware store happened to leave the insulation outside, so it absorbed too much moisture...estwing said:
- m
Yes, I get that this issue with double moisture barriers is tricky. Spontaneously, I just want to have one moisture barrier in the wall, meaning the waterproofing against the bathroom, and skip the plastic. But if I understand correctly, that's not approved according to building regulations?
The outer wall in our upcoming bathroom is 2.40m long and 95cm high before it becomes a sloping ceiling.
Now it is wrapped in plastic like everything else in the extension.
Should I remove the plastic on that wall piece if I am going to tile it?
I've thought of just having gypsum on the sloping ceiling, possibly extending the waterproofing up a bit on the sloping ceiling.
Now it is wrapped in plastic like everything else in the extension.
Should I remove the plastic on that wall piece if I am going to tile it?
I've thought of just having gypsum on the sloping ceiling, possibly extending the waterproofing up a bit on the sloping ceiling.
you can't reason like that when constructing......Gladh said:Moisture always gets in somehow, even if it's just accidentally splashing some water on the wall before the waterproofing is in place. Or maybe the moisture content in the studs is too high, or someone at the construction store happened to store the insulation outside, so it's absorbed too much moisture...
- m
Isn't it so that the waterproofing is not quite as tight as the diffusion-tight plastic ...?estwing said:
And therefore a few more water molecules pass through the waterproofing to the space than are ventilated out through the diffusion barrier ...
At least that's how I've understood it.
The old waterproof membranes were not vapor-tight, hence this silly gypsum story and everything that's been in the media, etc., meaning warm steam passed through the membranes into the wall, wetting gypsum, studs, etc. But the new approved waterproof membranes are vapor-tight and as tight as vapor barriers. Many say not to have plastic on the walls in wet rooms, but since the new waterproof membranes are vapor-tight, no more moisture is added in the bathroom than in, for example, the hallway. And when you start to think about it, what do you do...remove the plastic in the hallway or leave it in the bathroom? I have my opinion clear, and that is to leave the plastic and my reasoning is that if you use an approved waterproof membrane, no extra moisture is added in the wet rooms.
No, but the one that was already there can't get out of there either...
That's how I would have reasoned and made sure to find a solution for how the moisture can disappear, instead of burying your head in the sand and saying, it won't happen to me...estwing said:
Because moisture is everywhere and you can't guarantee that you won't build it in, so the important thing is to ensure that there is as little moisture as possible and that it has somewhere to go when it gets there.
But then again, I'm not a handyman either
- M
Why is that, if the moisture barrier is as good as the plastic, then it's like moving the plastic one step in the construction, the problem will be to seal between the plastic and the moisture barrier to make it as one unit. But it should be possible to solve.hempa111 said:
Turn it around instead, would you put double plastic layers in the hallway, one just under the drywall, and one 45/70 mm into the wall?
- M