Okay, I was thinking of taking on this project to lower the ceiling but seem to be failing already at installing a metal track.
As you can see (the picture) the plugs and everything come loose when I try to screw in the remaining screws on the left side of the track. I thought it was correct to plug like this but apparently, they don’t hold at all? They are 30mm and the screw is 35mm.
How should I make it stay? Why does it come loose?
Anyone have any small tips? It would have been fun to tackle this myself, but it's difficult to know how to attach it properly, obviously..
Thanks in advance
As you can see (the picture) the plugs and everything come loose when I try to screw in the remaining screws on the left side of the track. I thought it was correct to plug like this but apparently, they don’t hold at all? They are 30mm and the screw is 35mm.
How should I make it stay? Why does it come loose?
Anyone have any small tips? It would have been fun to tackle this myself, but it's difficult to know how to attach it properly, obviously..
Thanks in advance
We don't know what kind of wall you have or what plug you are using
You can use a string of pl400 on the rail. Assuming you have concrete walls, you are probably using too short plugs and screws, you are probably only fiddling with the plaster.
You can use a string of pl400 on the rail. Assuming you have concrete walls, you are probably using too short plugs and screws, you are probably only fiddling with the plaster.
I use regular universal plugs and wood screws (got the tip at Beijer).
I've drilled in with the whole drill, maybe 5 cm. In some cases, you get through the plaster quite easily, and the drill just sinks in (like on the left where it releases), and in other cases (like on the right) it stops a bit more, and a little red/orange comes out.
Are you supposed to drill with a drill that is..10m.. long and study the color shifts/shades in the material that comes out, or how do you proceed? It seems strange to hire someone just to find out what material you have in the wall.
What is pl400?
What is the procedure when determining what material you have in the wall and which plug/screw to use?
I've drilled in with the whole drill, maybe 5 cm. In some cases, you get through the plaster quite easily, and the drill just sinks in (like on the left where it releases), and in other cases (like on the right) it stops a bit more, and a little red/orange comes out.
Are you supposed to drill with a drill that is..10m.. long and study the color shifts/shades in the material that comes out, or how do you proceed? It seems strange to hire someone just to find out what material you have in the wall.
What is pl400?
What is the procedure when determining what material you have in the wall and which plug/screw to use?
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I don't know what kind of ceiling it is. If it's a real concrete ceiling, the biggest problem is drilling the holes (but with a proper hammer drill, it often goes really well.) And then most things stay in place really well. You should drill with the right diameter bit (the plug should be pushable with hand force, but a bit tight) and the screw should then be suitable for the plug. All the info is usually on the plug package.
It might be that you're just drilling into an easily drilled material where it doesn't hold well afterward. For example, a plaster layer before the concrete, lightweight concrete (usually not found in ceilings), plasterboard, reed, etc. Then it might require special fastening methods.
So if we start by trying to determine what kind of material you're trying to attach to, we can probably move forward from there.
It might be that you're just drilling into an easily drilled material where it doesn't hold well afterward. For example, a plaster layer before the concrete, lightweight concrete (usually not found in ceilings), plasterboard, reed, etc. Then it might require special fastening methods.
So if we start by trying to determine what kind of material you're trying to attach to, we can probably move forward from there.
I agree, I've drilled with the same diameter as the plug and it was no problem to attach them to the wall. But when I started screwing in the rail, it came loose on one side.
I attach the rails just below the ceiling, that is, on the wall. I'm forming a frame around the hallway in which I then attach cross beams (secondary ceiling profiles). But the question remains, of course, what material is it?
How can I find out?
I attach the rails just below the ceiling, that is, on the wall. I'm forming a frame around the hallway in which I then attach cross beams (secondary ceiling profiles). But the question remains, of course, what material is it?
How can I find out?
It sounds like plaster on bricks.ByggNiclas said:
Neither of these materials are particularly strong for securing to. But far from as hopeless as lightweight concrete and LECA, for example.
But you will probably need to prepare for longer and thicker plugs. It's good if you get into the brick a bit.
Tip, drill with a slightly smaller drill than recommended.
If you can't get the plug in at all due to the hole being too small, you can then take the correct drill diameter and make a precise hole with a steady hand quickly and so on. So you don't make the hole bigger than the drill due to a lot of "wearing."
For example, this one I think is better than the "regular" plug if the material is a bit softer like bricks etc.
http://katalog.essve.se/webspeed/katalog/kat_produkt.p?bid=V70&kat_bid=V70&dokid=wc397798
Yes, I'm using universal plugs, fischer UX 5x30. But it's strange because it's only in a few places that red/orange comes out, not all. How do I find out the material in the remaining places?
PL400 = a solvent-based assembly glue/construction adhesive that is relatively strong and adheres quite well to most things.
One part of the wall also faces the toilet (where it has come off in the picture), so that part is just some kind of middle section and quite thin.
I've drilled a bit more there now, and it seems like it's really just plaster, and I've run the whole drill in, which is still 5-6cm. How do you attach in that case?
A little further away on the same wall, there's a bit of red/orange, but also just a couple of cm to the side of such a hole, it just stops and nothing orange.
On the opposite side, there seems to be some wood a bit in, it smells like wood at least, from what's on the drill.
Have I managed to get all conceivable materials in my walls? What to do?
I've drilled a bit more there now, and it seems like it's really just plaster, and I've run the whole drill in, which is still 5-6cm. How do you attach in that case?
A little further away on the same wall, there's a bit of red/orange, but also just a couple of cm to the side of such a hole, it just stops and nothing orange.
On the opposite side, there seems to be some wood a bit in, it smells like wood at least, from what's on the drill.
Have I managed to get all conceivable materials in my walls? What to do?
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how long screws and plugs should I have?
The reddish-brown is brick dust, then you will likely hit a joint with most holes, hence it just looks like plaster dust. If it smells like wood, it might be a sealed door opening that's been plastered over.
The question might sound strange, but how old is the house? In some houses from the early 1900s, you can have a really "fun" type of situation, meaning you wonder a lot when there's no anchorage at all.
In general, I would say 70-75 mm so you know the ceiling is secure; if there is wood underneath, you don't need to drill or use plugs, just drive in the screw. 30 is way too short for this.
Another tip is to keep an eye on pipes and electricity so you don't hit them, there's a risk that electrical cables run through the walls under the ceiling. Any junction boxes must not be built in, and you are not allowed to simply splice any lighting above the new ceiling.
/Kent
The question might sound strange, but how old is the house? In some houses from the early 1900s, you can have a really "fun" type of situation, meaning you wonder a lot when there's no anchorage at all.
In general, I would say 70-75 mm so you know the ceiling is secure; if there is wood underneath, you don't need to drill or use plugs, just drive in the screw. 30 is way too short for this.
Another tip is to keep an eye on pipes and electricity so you don't hit them, there's a risk that electrical cables run through the walls under the ceiling. Any junction boxes must not be built in, and you are not allowed to simply splice any lighting above the new ceiling.
/Kent
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Thanks for the reply. The house is from the 1930s-40s.
Yes, I really have no clue what I should do. On the side where it came loose, the front part that is facing the toilet is pretty thin...maybe 10 cm or so, can I use 75mm there? It seems like it's just plaster all the way through there as well.
Isn't there a method that always works? Can't I just use a hammer drill, put in some kind of glue, insert a plug, and then screw it in?
Yes, I really have no clue what I should do. On the side where it came loose, the front part that is facing the toilet is pretty thin...maybe 10 cm or so, can I use 75mm there? It seems like it's just plaster all the way through there as well.
Isn't there a method that always works? Can't I just use a hammer drill, put in some kind of glue, insert a plug, and then screw it in?
I assume that this is a condominium (otherwise you're probably not allowed to make alterations to the apartment).
a) Check with the board on how you should lower the ceiling. There are people there who know how the building is constructed and what works best.
b) Ask around with your neighbors how they've done it. You're probably not the first to want to pimp your apartment.
c) It might be a good idea to instead hang/attach the new dropped ceiling to the existing ceiling. It's likely a cast vault, and better material to attach to.
There are no all-round methods that always give perfect results. It always has to be adapted to the circumstances.
a) Check with the board on how you should lower the ceiling. There are people there who know how the building is constructed and what works best.
b) Ask around with your neighbors how they've done it. You're probably not the first to want to pimp your apartment.
c) It might be a good idea to instead hang/attach the new dropped ceiling to the existing ceiling. It's likely a cast vault, and better material to attach to.
There are no all-round methods that always give perfect results. It always has to be adapted to the circumstances.
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you can make a bigger hole and see how the road is constructed