Tear down the ceiling and put up drywall?

[Stefan N]

Bet on the right boards, these are not meant to be plastered smooth and there's a high risk that they will crack in the future, not something I recommend. I used Norgips Plan 13 in my ceilings, which have recessed edges all around, and it gives a perfect result that also lasts.

 

[JDKahn]

That looks really nice, that's how I want it to be!

I will find out if the ceiling really supports the insulation, I remember when I looked from above in the attic under the insulation it looked like chipboard.

[bild]

You say I'm linking to the right board, but it's rounded at the edges? That is, it creates a grid pattern when you put it up. Do you fill this in manually with filler? Why not choose boards that are completely tight against each other if you want a smooth ceiling? Or do you let the fiberglass fabric handle the transition without filling underneath? I suspect that the fiberglass fabric is supposed to help handle movements in the house so the ceiling doesn't crack?

You won't get away from filling seams no matter which boards you choose if you want a smooth ceiling. First fill and sand completely smooth, then glue the fabric, then paint. You can, of course, choose full-sized boards but they are hard to install by yourself without a panel lift. The tip with the smaller boards with chamfered edges is that they're small enough to handle by yourself.

 

[JDKahn]

Invest in the right boards, these are not meant to be smoothly plastered and there is a high risk of them cracking in the future, something I do not recommend. I used Norgips Plan 13 on my ceilings which have beveled edges all around, and the result is perfect and long-lasting.

It's the weave that reinforces the joints. Regular boards are only beveled along the long sides, and in my experience, it's difficult to get it right with tape and filler on the short sides. It ends up with a kind of bump that shows in side light. But naturally, there are fewer joints to plaster with larger boards. However, I don't agree that the smaller boards are unsuitable for plastering. You still bevel the short side of a full-size board in the same way to get enough filler into the joint.

 

[Stefan N]

Plan 13 is precisely for that reason recessed all around so you avoid bumps at the butt joints.

 

[JDKahn]

Plan 13 is indeed recessed all around for that very reason to avoid bumps at the short joints.

Well then, that's settled. I didn't know that was available. Oh well, all the roofs are set and I am NOT redoing it unless necessary ☺

 

[snowjim]

Plan 13 is recessed around so you avoid bulges at the short seams.

What does this mean? Do you not have to cover the entire ceiling with fiberglass then? Or does it have to be done anyway? From what I understand, the edges are beveled in a way that helps the boards hold together better. However, they are not like a click floor that fits tightly together without gluing?

 

[snowjim]

I've been wondering what kind of construction they've set up in the ceiling. Is it just thick chipboard, or is it some special panel that can be torn down, leaving something to attach drywall to?

So I took out a screwdriver and opened up one of the panels, this is what it looks like:


http://i.imgur.com/12zO79i.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/ebxjIl4.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/MDjcY4R.jpg

So it seems to be some type of special panel with built-in soundproofing. Each panel appears to have a solid wood frame, then clad with thin chipboard on both sides (up towards the attic and down towards the living area). Since the panels aren't very wide, it forms a relatively durable construction. However, I wouldn't think of standing on them like our electrician did.

I assume this is a truss seen here:


There you can also see the insulation, and it can be pushed up from below.

When measuring the thickness, you find the following:


http://i.imgur.com/GaxqgRU.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/Gwd7LAA.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/xhrEU8k.jpg

So in other words, they are about 2 cm thick, and given that they contain some solid wood, they shouldn't really tend to sag.

The house is a cheaper mass-produced house, so corners have been cut here and there, and this ceiling might be one of those areas where they've chosen to install just a ceiling without extra joists or anything else.

I should go up in the attic and see if I can find seams or the like under the insulation, but right now it seems likely that they've installed this ceiling throughout the house and that it also goes up to the attic and supports the insulation. The bathroom is the only room that's newly renovated, and it has a different ceiling, but it's entirely possible that it was installed over the existing one. The ceiling there looks very thin, so it's not impossible.

If I'm right, this means if I tear down the ceiling in the kitchen, I'll open up to the attic. There is likely nothing else holding it up, like slats or the like, since the panels are partially solid wood. I suspect that if this is true, it might be better to install the new ceiling directly over the existing one?

 

[Stefan N]

What does this mean? Does it mean you don't have to cover the entire roof with fiberglass then? Or does it have to be done regardless? From what I understand, the edges are beveled in a way that makes the panels hold together better. However, they are not like a click floor that fits tightly without gluing?

They are only spackled and reinforced at the joints with paper tape and installed like regular panels.

 

[snowjim]

So if I understand correctly, I should do the following then:

1. Buy gypsum plan 13
2. Mount them directly against the existing ceiling and remember to screw into the solid material
3. Sand the transitions between the boards if they turn out to be uneven
4. Place strips that fit plan 13 "indentations"
5. Fill in screws and strips
6. Sand
7. Prime
8. Paint with final coat

Does this sound like the right way to go? Can I be sure that I won't get cracks in the ceiling after a couple of years then? The advantage of beveled gypsum boards which form rectangles in the ceiling is that even if they crack between, it doesn't look irregular.

Otherwise, the alternative is to buy another finished inner ceiling, they usually are thinner and likely don't require filling, sanding, and painting. Not sure what really is the best way to go, maybe it's just about a look?

 

[snowjim]

Should I install battens if I choose plasterboard? Or can I attach them directly to the existing structure? And if I have to use battens, how much do I need to add at a minimum thickness, as I don't want to negatively affect the ceiling height too much?

 

[Stefan N]

Points 1-8 look good, however, you need to plaster several times and be very meticulous as it's not so easy to plaster a ceiling if you're inexperienced. Make sure to be careful also when sanding so you don't create a groove at the joint. I always finish when it looks good by doing a round with a wide putty knife (at least 40cm wide) with fine filler/drywall compound to make it really nice.

 

[snowjim]

Sounds like there's quite a bit of work with plaster ceilings, at least if it's going to be smooth and nice. I think we're leaning towards installing Huntonit instead, it seems to be simple and convenient if you can accept the rectangular patterns we have in the rest of the house.

The unfortunate part is that I have to install lattice panels according to Bauhaus since the ceiling I have is only 2 cm thick and consists mostly of masonite (with a solid frame).

I haven't found how thick the lattice panels need to be, but it seems to be around 3 cm, and Huntonit is about 1 cm, so then we're adding 4 cm in height instead of 1 cm.

The only alternative to this is to tear down the 2 cm thick panels that are there now and place the lattice panel directly against the rafters. This would mean I'd have to remove all the insulation from the attic over the kitchen since it would then be wide open up to the attic. Once the lattice panel is in place, I can put it back again. If I do this, the house would only extend 2 cm more than it does today.

How would you have done it?

 

[snowjim]

Now I've been up in the attic and looked at what's under the insulation. As mentioned, it seems to be chipboard with some type of paper on it. The paper is black on the underside and brown on the top side. The seams are noticeably wider than the panels on the entrance floor. You can also see that there are no furring strips.


http://i.imgur.com/Fam8b8T.jpg
Here you can see a seam

http://i.imgur.com/MoSyRRI.jpg
Here we can see another seam, it's not where the paper is the most wrinkled but where it is only slightly wrinkled


http://i.imgur.com/F31FvWn.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/tq8f3qg.jpg
Here you can see both seams and you can then see that the boards are relatively wide.


http://i.imgur.com/96EZhsE.jpg

This is in another place but again you can see a seam


I also drilled a larger hole from the kitchen and measured the depth up to the attic and there we have 2.3 cm.

A wild guess is that this is a whole product, i.e. a bit like parquet but thicker and with built-in sound and heat insulation.

If we take down these boards, we have to put furring strips between the rafters holding up the insulation, which we can attach the ceiling tiles to. This also means it will be a different solution than in all the other rooms.

In the room next to the kitchen, we have 2.39, in the kitchen, we have 2.37 due to an electric heated floor that will be removed during renovation. So this means that if we tear out the floor and add furring strips to the existing ceiling, we will have a ceiling height of 2.35 cm, i.e. we lose 4 cm.

What would you do?

 

[snowjim]

The more I think about it, the more I start to wonder if repair, filling, sanding, and painting might not be that much work in comparison!?

 

[JohanLun]

I don't think you can get it to a smooth ceiling, but if you can repair it back to the original design, that sounds like the best...

Otherwise, shouldn't it be possible to put a "renoveringsgips" (thinner) right over the old mess and screw/glue into the boards that are there? There are probably studs under these boards that you can fasten to, right? Long screws...