Hello!
I'm planning to build a garage (approximately 20 × 12m) and want it completely open with a ceiling height of 4m. Concrete slab with underfloor heating. There will be a living area on the upper floor.
I'm now considering the flooring, if HD/F might be a good option. There are probably other alternatives. If possible, I would like to have wooden walls, but otherwise, it might have to be leca or similar. I don't know if there are good wood alternatives.
Currently, I am in the budgeting phase. I can't find any prices for HD/F flooring either.
So, if anyone can enlighten me, no one would be happier than me.
Regards, Kenneth
I'm planning to build a garage (approximately 20 × 12m) and want it completely open with a ceiling height of 4m. Concrete slab with underfloor heating. There will be a living area on the upper floor.
I'm now considering the flooring, if HD/F might be a good option. There are probably other alternatives. If possible, I would like to have wooden walls, but otherwise, it might have to be leca or similar. I don't know if there are good wood alternatives.
Currently, I am in the budgeting phase. I can't find any prices for HD/F flooring either.
So, if anyone can enlighten me, no one would be happier than me.
Regards, Kenneth
I think hollow core slabs are a good option, they can actually be placed on wooden walls. Not common but there are examples. Check with e.g. Contiga or Strängbetong.
Another possibility, which is somewhat in vogue, is KL-trä. Solid wood panels, similar load-bearing capacity as hollow core slabs in terms of thickness. Here you have Martinsson and Stora Enso. I think it could be something for you!
Another possibility, which is somewhat in vogue, is KL-trä. Solid wood panels, similar load-bearing capacity as hollow core slabs in terms of thickness. Here you have Martinsson and Stora Enso. I think it could be something for you!
HDf at 12m is not unreasonable, if you search for "håldäck direkt" you can estimate the required height. Call, for example, Strängbetong or Kynningsrud and ask about prices. It might also be the case that they have some leftover at a cheaper price. If you're going for HDf, I would suggest a pillar/beam system in steel on the ground floor with partition walls in wood, or you could build up the walls. The upper floor could be built like a "normal" house with roof trusses spanning 12m.
Hello and welcome to the Byggahus forum!
A 12-meter span is a challenge. I don't think that pre-stressed hollow core elements like HD/F are an option for a garage build. It would likely require a larger project for it to be feasible. It also presupposes some form of masonry outer walls. I believe that the only realistic alternative is based on primary support from glulam beams with slightly larger c/c distance and secondary support from construction timber.
If you place glulam beams with dimensions 215x630 at c/c spacing of 1800 mm and 45x120 joists at c/c 600 mm perpendicular to these, and laminate screws with chipboard on top, you will meet the requirements. The beams should rest on glulam columns, at least 115x115 mm. The number of possible variations is large.
A 12-meter span is a challenge. I don't think that pre-stressed hollow core elements like HD/F are an option for a garage build. It would likely require a larger project for it to be feasible. It also presupposes some form of masonry outer walls. I believe that the only realistic alternative is based on primary support from glulam beams with slightly larger c/c distance and secondary support from construction timber.
If you place glulam beams with dimensions 215x630 at c/c spacing of 1800 mm and 45x120 joists at c/c 600 mm perpendicular to these, and laminate screws with chipboard on top, you will meet the requirements. The beams should rest on glulam columns, at least 115x115 mm. The number of possible variations is large.
You don't have a sketch of the planned garage, a plan and a section? Hdf is an option you shouldn't dismiss, it doesn't require masonry walls unless you want them. Unfortunately, I don't really believe in the proposal with glulam/k-timber/chipboard. The problem with this is that you don't get any interaction between the floor and the glulam, and therefore the stiffness of the floor structure depends solely on the glulam dimension. Therefore, it would require "unnecessarily" much glulam. If we were to further develop the different proposals, we could combine glulam and CL panels, which would allow for full interaction between them, and the floor structure could be thinner.
The combination of glulam and CL plates is naturally very interesting. I guess I can blame my old-fashioned background for not thinking of it. Similarly, I find it hard to imagine hollow slabs on wooden walls. But the question is whether it is so optimal to combine a garage and residence in that way? If you're going to build just a garage in the size range of 20x12 m, then three-hinged frames in glulam must be the most interesting option. It's difficult to layout a residence with the dimensions 20x12 without ending up with many dark spaces.
Hollow-core slab, CLT, glulam . . . Thanks for the different suggestions!
Of course one wants to keep it as simple as possible, and unfortunately it doesn't seem so simple.
It's definitely good if the garage/machine hall is built with non-combustible material. That's at least how I initially thought, perhaps I need to reconsider. Building with Leca blocks is also more expensive than a wood wall. Imagine how simple it would be if you could just install an elevated truss (without support underneath).
Of course one wants to keep it as simple as possible, and unfortunately it doesn't seem so simple.
It's definitely good if the garage/machine hall is built with non-combustible material. That's at least how I initially thought, perhaps I need to reconsider. Building with Leca blocks is also more expensive than a wood wall. Imagine how simple it would be if you could just install an elevated truss (without support underneath).
Hollow core slabs on wooden walls don't seem convincing to me either; if one chooses hollow core slabs, it's probably best to use steel beams and columns with infill walls made of wood (if having wood in the walls is the most important). Otherwise, solid walls are good in a garage, especially regarding fire safety and various salt splashes. What you mention about light in the residential area will definitely be a bit of a challenge, I assume you have some nice solutions up your sleeve
Right now, the light is probably the least of the problems. Depends on how big/many windows you put in, and there are always lamps
At first, I was considering 16 * 16 meters, but if a 12-meter span is difficult, then 16 meters will probably be too complicated.
At first, I was considering 16 * 16 meters, but if a 12-meter span is difficult, then 16 meters will probably be too complicated.
What constitutes an appropriate size for a machine hall or similar structure greatly depends on its intended use. 12x20 meters is not unreasonable if the total area is to be around 240 square meters. For residences, there is not much benefit in having a width greater than 8 meters. Making them deeper only increases the amount of unusable space. Therefore, it is not a smart solution to combine a machine hall with a residence. However, the plot size and zoning regulations may still necessitate it.
16 m also works with hollow core slabs, they then become 400-500 mm high. But then the span in your project starts to be more of a fun thing than practically suitable.
I don't think 12 m residential flooring is suitable with beams. It works but is not the optimal solution because the natural frequency should be kept above 8 Hz and then the height of the beams increases significantly.
Can you live with a row of columns in the garage?
See no obstacle in the combination of residence and garage.
I don't think 12 m residential flooring is suitable with beams. It works but is not the optimal solution because the natural frequency should be kept above 8 Hz and then the height of the beams increases significantly.
Can you live with a row of columns in the garage?
See no obstacle in the combination of residence and garage.
It's rarely a good solution to combine operations with very different needs for flexibility in the same building volume. It usually becomes expensive and inefficient. At least, that's been the case in the instances I know of. In the initial stage, you need the help of an architect to structure the needs and possibilities. In a later stage, you will also need an engineer to find good technical solutions for the hall section. It's quite an expensive project you're considering.
Thanks for all the info!
HDF flooring would cost about half a million, and that's just the flooring and lifting. Then there's the labor and VAT on top of that.
So now I've changed my mind, I'm skipping the residential part. Self-supporting trusses and only a garage with storage above it will do. Then I'll extend the existing house instead.
Anyone know about the edge elements from Siroc? It seems to be a good model for garages. You get a ledge to place the wall/sill on.
Best regards, Kenneth
HDF flooring would cost about half a million, and that's just the flooring and lifting. Then there's the labor and VAT on top of that.
So now I've changed my mind, I'm skipping the residential part. Self-supporting trusses and only a garage with storage above it will do. Then I'll extend the existing house instead.
Anyone know about the edge elements from Siroc? It seems to be a good model for garages. You get a ledge to place the wall/sill on.
Best regards, Kenneth
Before it's time to choose the edge element, the foundation beam must be dimensioned, as it will carry a heavy snow load. As long as you don't have clay, it should work with a slab-on-grade foundation method.
The element that forms a small ledge to place the wall on doesn't work in this case; you'll probably need to make a larger edge beam with an L-element of any brand.
The element that forms a small ledge to place the wall on doesn't work in this case; you'll probably need to make a larger edge beam with an L-element of any brand.
TS can be grateful that two of Byggahus's most talented designers, bossespecial and witten, have paid attention to this topic. Just one comment on your conclusions. Large spans (i.e., freedom from pillars) and ceiling height are spatial characteristics that are usually quite expensive. If storage is needed, it's often better to give it a separate space with a normal ceiling height rather than using mezzanine, to thus keep the area with high ceilings controlled.