I am in charge of a renovation of a luxury model archipelago house. The clients are industry-savvy individuals who demand an incredible finish to the work. They often choose to pay a little more for both craftsmen and products to be satisfied.
Currently, it was time to renovate the bathroom.
The stone chosen comes from a store in Stockholm that claims to have long and good knowledge. Among the materials they sell, we have chosen. According to them, an exclusive stone of very high quality.
With this information, we ordered and naturally expected a product of the highest class.
However, the tiler immediately reacted upon delivery to the stone's irregular quality, and we decided to question the store if this was truly top-class or if there was a mistake in this delivery.
It took a while for them to admit that an error had occurred, they initially questioned the tiler's knowledge of handling natural stone. Natural stone has, according to them, a natural character and is not exact. They also believed that the tiler could “hide” the stones that were not perfect by using simple measures to cut them off from the nets. And that some tiles "must" be cut anyway. - So choose to cut off the part that is not perfect.
Despite this, we came to an agreement, and new tiles were on the way. The supplier also promised to perform an extra quality check so this would not be repeated. So far so good. BUT..
To our great disappointment, the new stones held the same poor standard as the first ones.
We are now once again turning to the store and asking if we can return the stone. But the answer is NO!
They now claim that “it is impossible to cut this stone in perfect lines.” They also write, somewhat smugly, that perhaps it would be better if we chose a porcelain tile instead. "We then avoid getting the natural character that a natural stone has." ?! ?! They also write that the first tiles were not replaced due to any faults, but that they replaced the tiles we considered substandard out of pure goodwill.
I now wish to get some support and help from others here. What is your opinion on the quality of this product?
Should these chips, uneven grout widths, the crookedly glued stones on the nets, the "straight" curves on the mosaic be something that is acceptable? Is the supplier right when they claim this is part of the natural character of stone?
To give you an idea of how much is involved, the store agreed to replace about 85% of the total amount of stone for the bathroom the first time. 38 net sheets. Plus about 80 loose stones. Of course, I can't upload all the pictures, so you can see examples of the quality that was consistent below. Tile by tile, net by net has repeated defects.
In this case, I don't have much factual basis to present, for example, I don't know if there are any terms in the product that stipulate that deviations of X mm or similar may occur. In such a case, you have accepted a certain tolerance level and therefore have to expect some deviations. Sometimes a purchase agreement (receipt) can refer to the store's general terms, which in turn refer to the technical specifications for the respective purchased product.
However, that such a tolerance level should allow for the untreated slab feels very doubtful.
But the gut feeling I have is that I would have stood my ground and claimed this.
An argument to the store is that if they care about the customer (few stores say no to caring about the customer), and they believe the product is actually flawless, it should be possible for them to take them back. The slabs, their color or shape, are not directly adapted to you (worse if you asked them to engrave your name on every 10th slab). With such reasoning, painting them into a corner, my experience is that you can usually come to a solution. Try to smooth it over when you talk about them "sometimes it goes right, sometimes it goes wrong, let’s part as friends."
There are no possibilities of achieving a top result with this material. The question is what the customer can accept. If it's put up and the customer says "Do it right, do it over," then the main contractor is left in a difficult position and has to cover the costs of tearing everything out. A new moisture barrier and everything that comes with it. No chance I would dare to put this up without getting written approval from the customer. Too expensive to take a chance with second-rate material in a bathroom...
Kest, that's exactly how we feel. Achieving top results with a secondary product is impossible.
What also surprises me a lot is why they even bother to send tiles with the exact same issues once more. They must have understood that the reaction would be the same as it was previously. It's also unfortunate that they are actually disrupting the planning made by us project managers. The time spent by subcontractors and other staff before this project is completed. Two attempts to start the tiling work have already gone awry. I really hope that the store takes responsibility when they see the invoice for overtime incurred because of these tiles.
The customer is on vacation until January and has, of course, agreed on a deadline for the bathroom before they return. So it will be an exciting start to the new year. But I am calm in knowing that a good result at a later stage is better than a bathroom completed on time that then needs to be redone.
In this case, I don't have much factual basis to go on; for example, I don't know if there are any conditions in the product that stipulate that deviations of X mm or similar may occur. In such a case, you have accepted a certain level of tolerance and therefore have to expect some deviations. Sometimes a purchase agreement (receipt) can refer to the store's general terms, which in turn refer to the technical specifications for each purchased product.
But that such a level of tolerance should allow room for the untreated slab feels very doubtful.
But my gut feeling is that I would stand my ground and make a complaint about this.
An argument to the store is that if they care about the customer (few stores say no to caring about the customer), and they consider the product to be actually flawless, it should be possible for them to take them back. The slabs, their color, or shape, are in no way directly customized for you (worse if you asked them to engrave your name on every 10th slab). With such reasoning, painting them into a corner, my experience is that you can usually reach a solution. Try to smooth it over when you talk about them, "sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong, let's part as friends."
Good luck.
I think a little in this situation, that they should take their slabs back and compensate us as customers. If it is as they themselves say, there was nothing wrong with the previously swapped slabs. This was done purely as goodwill. Then it should be the usual right of withdrawal that applies.
Then regarding what you actually brought up regarding a certain acceptance, etc. We actually received a document sent to us AFTER we submitted the complaint about the stone slabs. There, their error margins and acceptance of the height of different slabs are stated. They actually have the right to release slabs in really poor condition thanks to this. And that's perfectly fine... IF you're buying slabs from the SALE corner at ByggMax. But when buying from this store where they promote how fine their material is—best class marble—then you can't send goods that look like this. In my opinion.
A good example of how an ordinary customer needs a professional representative as a commissioner. With the current model choice, the point of using natural stone is completely missed. Natural stone should be laid with very thin joints (2--3 mm) and therefore needs to be of high quality but also have a simple geometry. The type of pattern used is always associated with ceramic stones. An impossible task to get it perfect with marble and even if it worked, it would just look silly. It is certainly impossible to rely on HusAMA in a dispute. Unfortunately, it doesn't help TS who is caught in a trap. In the future, such assignments should probably not be taken without a competent commissioning representative.
A good example of why an average customer needs a professional agent as a client. With the current model choice, the whole point of using natural stone is completely missed. Natural stone should be laid with very thin joints (2--3 mm) and therefore needs to be of high quality but also have a simple geometry. The used type of pattern is always associated with ceramic stones. An impossible endeavor to get it perfect with marble and even if it worked, it would just look silly. It's probably not possible to rely on HusAMA in a dispute. Unfortunately, it doesn't help TS who is caught in a bind. In the future, such assignments shouldn't be taken on without a competent client agent.
In this case, the customer has been working together with an architect who selected these tiles. Shouldn't these two be able to rely on the store and its salesperson who touts the chain's long experience and expertise and also their words that the products maintain an exclusive standard? But I hear your words, one should have known better. Producing this type of stone model is like asking for trouble.
If 85% is wrong on the first delivery, I wouldn't believe that supplier could ever provide what you need.
Of course, that's how we felt as well. But with the time pressure on the craftsman, the deadline with penalty. Made us hope that this g
Aajn82 said:
If 85% is wrong on the first delivery, I wouldn't believe that supplier could ever provide what you need.
Aajn82 said:
If 85% is wrong on the first delivery, I wouldn't believe that supplier could ever provide what you need.
Aajn82 said:
If 85% is wrong on the first delivery, I wouldn't believe that supplier could ever provide what you need.
I agree with what you're writing, we should have stopped back then and chosen new products. But they convinced us that they could deliver new tiles. And when you're facing a deadline and penalty for delay, of course new tiles are taken again for a new attempt. The bathroom is designed in certain parts specifically for these mosaic nets.
But is it really because it's natural stone that there's a problem? The mosaic must be water cut. It looks more like poor handling by the manufacturer.
I would never accept these tiles. Defectively manufactured. If they have tiles in the store, I would have gone there, taken a picture, and compared it with the delivered tiles.
Is it individual stones that have the wrong shape or is it the stones together that cause the problem?
In other words, would it be possible to replace individual stones to achieve a result or would it be an impossible task?
If you received material samples before the job when choosing a supplier and these do not show signs of the damage you are now showcasing, I would likely stand firm and demand new stones. A serious supplier would have declined early on if they realized they couldn't deliver according to the requirements. Here, I would also argue that you, as the project manager, are not liable for any delay penalties if it's the Architect and client who essentially designed the bathroom.
In your position, I would take some stone pieces to an alternative supplier to see what their opinion is. They might consider it possible to produce what you're looking for and could prioritize an order with a higher markup.
The stone supplier or party that cuts the pattern and nets the stone maintains low quality in production, which the chipping also reveals. However, as mentioned earlier, getting natural stone mm-perfect in these patterns is hardly possible. Let the customer decide if they want the product or if they choose a new stone. Explain that you cannot be responsible for any eventual deadline due to this. If the client has hired the architect and they prescribed the stone, then you are not responsible for the stone's quality if it falls within the tolerances specified by the supplier. Personally, I think the stone is not suitable for installation and should be returned by the store. But legally, it might be difficult to demand this if there are specified tolerances that have been adhered to.
If 85% is faulty on the first delivery, I wouldn't think that supplier can ever provide what you need.
Well, it should only take seven deliveries, then you should have achieved 100% coverage...
...or rather not...
...after 16 deliveries, 90% is OK.
You need to bring in twice as much material and send back the faulty one four times to get full coverage with acceptable material. Then return the rest for a refund...
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