Hi! We have bought a house built in '73, which means a slab-on-grade foundation (plastic under the slab) with framed and insulated floors. We have now started the renovation a bit, demolished the utility entrance (which is also a laundry room) and a toilet. Since this is a "utility area," we plan to have vinyl flooring in the entrance, wallpaper and paint on the walls, and in the toilet, vinyl flooring and wet room wallpaper.
Now to the questions.
Currently, the joists rest on wooden blocks that stand directly on the concrete. No sign of moisture or odor, but I thought about replacing them with plastic spacers and angle irons. The insulation, which is fiberglass?, lies from the slab up to the top of the floor joists, meaning it occupies the entire space under the subfloor. I was thinking of insulating only between the floor joists and leaving the space between the slab and joist free so the air can "circulate," so to speak. There is also water piping to a distributor under the floor; should this also be insulated, or will it manage on its own?
I think this would be the smartest and quickest way, but what do you say?
In the toilet, which has a shower, I have removed the upper part of the casting, cleared away the insulation that was there, and will level it out with either concrete or leveling compound. What strikes me is how poorly the slab is cast, lots of pits. I am also going to remove all wooden spacers I see to adjoining rooms to replace them with plastic. Once that's done, I will move the drains for the shower and toilet and lay in foam plastic on which I will cast the slab. I will also run new PEX pipes to all connections in the foam plastic. Do you think that sounds reasonable?
/Mr Sound
Now to the questions.
Currently, the joists rest on wooden blocks that stand directly on the concrete. No sign of moisture or odor, but I thought about replacing them with plastic spacers and angle irons. The insulation, which is fiberglass?, lies from the slab up to the top of the floor joists, meaning it occupies the entire space under the subfloor. I was thinking of insulating only between the floor joists and leaving the space between the slab and joist free so the air can "circulate," so to speak. There is also water piping to a distributor under the floor; should this also be insulated, or will it manage on its own?
I think this would be the smartest and quickest way, but what do you say?
In the toilet, which has a shower, I have removed the upper part of the casting, cleared away the insulation that was there, and will level it out with either concrete or leveling compound. What strikes me is how poorly the slab is cast, lots of pits. I am also going to remove all wooden spacers I see to adjoining rooms to replace them with plastic. Once that's done, I will move the drains for the shower and toilet and lay in foam plastic on which I will cast the slab. I will also run new PEX pipes to all connections in the foam plastic. Do you think that sounds reasonable?
/Mr Sound
Regarding spacers: we had wedge-shaped spacers made of imp. wood under the floor joists and switched to plastic and angle irons, but then I realized how convenient the wedges were - one on each side of the joist allows you to adjust as precisely as you want. When you screw the angle iron into the floor and the joist, it sometimes happens that the joist lifts a bit and then it hangs on the iron and not on the plastic blocks. In hindsight, I would probably have done it as it was from the start, i.e., wooden wedges.
One alternative might be the Nivell floor (http://www.nivellsystem.se/sv/)
The adjustment screws are fixed, meaning they can't rise when adjusting the rule.
The adjustment is very easy.
And the insulation hangs a bit above the concrete.
Nivell recommends using a ventilated floor according to their system (they probably don't dare to recommend anything else), but of course, you can also go for a passively ventilated option (at your own risk).
I have the same problem as you, with an uneven and ugly slab, and the previous floor was directly leveled via blocks on the concrete.
But since the previous wooden blocks were intact and dry, and I haven't seen any indication of moisture problems, I plan to use a passive Nivell and install ventilated baseboards.
In my case, 70mm studs/insulation, grooved chipboard/floor heating, and laminate flooring for the best thermal conductivity.
The adjustment screws are fixed, meaning they can't rise when adjusting the rule.
The adjustment is very easy.
And the insulation hangs a bit above the concrete.
Nivell recommends using a ventilated floor according to their system (they probably don't dare to recommend anything else), but of course, you can also go for a passively ventilated option (at your own risk).
I have the same problem as you, with an uneven and ugly slab, and the previous floor was directly leveled via blocks on the concrete.
But since the previous wooden blocks were intact and dry, and I haven't seen any indication of moisture problems, I plan to use a passive Nivell and install ventilated baseboards.
In my case, 70mm studs/insulation, grooved chipboard/floor heating, and laminate flooring for the best thermal conductivity.
Are you asking me??Mr Sound said:
If so, here's how it is:
In the Nivell system, there are about 4cm wide hooks that you hang over the studs, and the insulation then rests on them.
This means that you have the same thickness of insulation as the height of the studs.
The insulation is a specially developed type. It is probably a bit harder than regular mineral wool and has a fabric on one side that is meant to stiffen the insulation so it doesn't sag in the middle. The side with the fabric faces downwards.
It seems that all three major brands make insulation for Nivell, i.e., Isover, Paroc, and Roxull. Then it depends on where each building supply store orders its insulation from, which one you get.
Take a look, for example, in Nivell's brochure: http://www.nivellsystem.se/images/content/documents/sv/bygg.pdf
Raising this thread a bit. I'm considering a passive Nivell floor myself since I don't have any moisture problems, but I still feel I want to secure the future by not placing organic material directly against the slab.
How has it worked for you with passive Nivell floors? Anyone else who has experience with Nivell without a mechanical fan?
How has it worked for you with passive Nivell floors? Anyone else who has experience with Nivell without a mechanical fan?
Continuing with a semi-OT question.
Could you use similar wedges underneath?
http://biltema.se/sv/Bygg/Fastelement/Ovrigt/Plastkil-194743/
I'm thinking of a somewhat even floor where you want to raise about 30mm from the concrete.
Two wedges and a concrete screw straight through the joist and wedges.
Could you use similar wedges underneath?
http://biltema.se/sv/Bygg/Fastelement/Ovrigt/Plastkil-194743/
I'm thinking of a somewhat even floor where you want to raise about 30mm from the concrete.
Two wedges and a concrete screw straight through the joist and wedges.