Panel directly on tretex?

[Stefan1972]

In most houses with treetex, it is not built-in, but constitutes the outermost layer, mainly on the walls. Possibly with wallpaper or fabric over it. In our house from 1950, it is the only material that makes up the interior walls apart from the studs and a bit of woven wallpaper, meaning it won't just slightly glow regardless of which side gets warm. Similar to the piece of wall we've already tested.

You make it sound like treetex is equivalent to gypsum in the event of a fire, that it makes no difference at all and therefore absurd to replace. Doubtful that's the case.

Okay, sure it is often the case, but there is still nothing to suggest that homes with treetex burn more or more often than those with gypsum walls. Usually, the fire starts with the furnishings anyway, and once it is fully developed, the wall material probably doesn't matter. The main fire hazard is likely sofas, I would think. One probably has more to gain from non-flammable materials there in that case. Or curtains that don't burn....

 

[namnbyte]

Okay, sure, many times it's like that, but there is still nothing to suggest that homes with threetex burn more frequently or more often than those with gypsum walls. It often starts in the furnishings anyway, and once fully ablaze, the wall material probably doesn't matter. The number one source of fire is probably sofas, I would think. There's more to gain from non-flammable materials there if anything. Or curtains that don't catch fire....

I agree that they don't burn more often than others, and that furnishings are a major culprit when the fire is underway.
What would be interesting to have statistics on is how often houses with mostly threetex versus mostly gypsum become so fully engulfed that firefighting becomes futile, and the rescue work instead focuses on preventing the spread to adjacent properties. That is, they let the building burn out.

I still believe that using gypsum instead of threetex significantly increases the chances of at least being able to save Something in/from the home when a fire occurs. It gives a certain extra chance to avoid total destruction. Which we in this household consider worth enough to replace the threetex with gypsum, among other reasons.

 

[karlmb]

Plastic against the ceiling does indeed mean that less moisture goes up there, but then my thought is if it doesn't lead to more moisture going somewhere else and causing problems there?
Plastic everywhere or nowhere, and because it's difficult to get the modern tight plastic layer in an old house, you skip it and moderate with the insulation.

My two cents.

But if you put plastic on a part, doesn't that increase the relative humidity in the room?
And then surely no more moisture will travel through other places.
No, I don't buy that.

 

[Fotografen]

The same amount of air wants to escape which causes the flow to increase where it is not tight...the same amount can condense, over a smaller area...

More or less unique for each case.

 

[karlmb]

The same amount of air wants to escape, which causes the flow to increase where it is not tight... the same amount can condense on a smaller surface...

More or less unique for each case.

But now it's not the leaks we're discussing. It's what diffuses through where the air doesn't leak.

 

[karlmb]

But now it's not the leaks we're discussing. It's what diffuses through where there are no air leaks.

And if you are now hunting air leaks upwind and solve it with a vapor barrier or something similar, then it would be the same problem, that warm air finds other ways out and causes problems? Is it even safe to seal an old house? It seems like those advocating vapor barriers lack knowledge of physics and vapor diffusion in practice.

 

[Stefan1972]

That they don't burn more often than others, I agree with that, and also that the interior is a major culprit when the fire does break out.
What would be interesting to have statistics on is how often houses with mostly treetex versus mostly gypsum become so engulfed that firefighting becomes pointless and the rescue work instead focuses on preventing the spread to adjacent properties. In other words, they let the building burn out.

I am still of the opinion that gypsum instead of treetex significantly increases the chances of at least being able to save something in/from the home when a fire occurs. Gives an extra chance to avoid total destruction. Which we in this household deem worthy enough to replace the treetex with gypsum, among other things.

But this is a modern opinion based on nonexistent facts. Just an opinion. I have not seen any statistics on the subject and probably it involves things that are extremely difficult to measure. You would have to build two identical houses with exactly the same conditions and only different wall materials. If the fire breaks out significantly, the materials don't matter because the heat ignites the underlying materials anyway. Different fire cells, e.g., building bodies against each other, are often separated by double gypsum, and that's considered enough, but it’s probably the same there. It's only about tiny differences if you consider that the fire has taken hold. It's not like the gypsum withstands for half an hour or so......

 

[namnbyte]

But this is a modern opinion based on non-existent facts. Just an opinion. I have not seen any statistics on the subject and probably it involves extremely difficult-to-measure things. Then you would have to build two identical houses with exactly the same conditions and only different wall materials. If it catches fire substantially, the materials don't matter because the heat ignites the underlying materials anyway. Different fire compartments, like house bodies against each other, are often separated with double plasterboard, and it's considered sufficient, but it's probably the same there. It still only involves minor differences if one considers that the fire has taken hold. It's not like the plasterboard withstands for half an hour or so...

Likewise, your counterargument is based on equally non-existent facts.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve either. I clearly emphasized at the end that this is how this household reasons and will continue to do. You can build a house entirely out of treetex if you want, we will not. Right now it mostly sounds like you are arguing for the sake of argument.

 

[Stefan1972]

The problem is just that those who think this about tretex are incredibly sure that they are right.........You are not alone exactly. That's why there need to be counterpoints that question as well. Nothing more than that.....I'm not writing for personal gain.

 

[BigR]

Can't you surprise the forum and continue the discussion in a more fiery thread than this one with the theme of moisture migration.

 

[karlmb]

I think the cold attic becomes damp during late summer, and wood shavings insulation absorbs moisture. With a vapor barrier, it can dry in both directions instead of just upward with plastic. I just think it feels dumb to use plastic if you're not sure it's completely airtight otherwise; if building new, I would also use plastic.
There are vapor barriers for different conditions as well
Those are my thoughts, but I understand there are different opinions since it seems there are among professional practitioners too.

Here might be a better explanation than I can write [link]

They are selling a product. Of course, they speak in favor of it.
This argument I can buy:

• Works well when the outside of the construction is diffusion-tight

For example, when you can't or don't manage to arrange proper outer roof ventilation on flat roofs with metal.
But taking it to old houses...
Are there really no more credible advocates?

 

[Denniis]

They sell a product. Of course, they speak for the product.
This argument I can buy:

• Works well when the outside of the construction is diffusion-tight

For example, when one does not have the energy or capability to arrange proper roof ventilation on flat roofs with metal.
But to apply it to old houses...
Are there really no more credible advocates?

I understand that they are selling the product to some extent of course, but I still believe it has a functional purpose.
I can't see anything negative about the product.

I listen a lot to carpenters on Instagram whom I think have a sensible reasoning. This has made me use vapor brakes together with wood fiber insulation when I build/renovate anyway.

 

[karlmb]

I understand that they sell the product to some extent, of course, but I still believe it has a functional purpose.
I can't see anything negative about the product.

I listen a lot to carpenters on Instagram whom I think have a reasonable point of view. That has made me use vapor barriers together with wood fiber insulation when I build/renovate anyway.

The negative is that it allows moisture to pass through, of course. The main idea seems to be that "it worked in the past."
Feel free to link to a reasoning building expert who likes vapor barriers.
I don't have Instagram.

 

[Denniis]

The negative aspect is that it lets moisture through, of course. The main idea seems to be that "it worked in the past".
Feel free to link to any reasoning building expert who likes vapor brakes.
Don't have Instagram.

The function is supposed to let moisture pass through a hole, so with the right installation it's basically like a vapor barrier from the warm side. But with an attic that gets warmer than the living space during summer, there's a risk of condensation, which vapor brakes handle better than vapor barriers.
Ventilation plays a big role in all this; in my case, it's natural ventilation with pax in the bathroom.
I'm not sure who the building experts are exactly, but there are both vocational teachers and people with long experience who advocate for vapor brakes whom I feel I trust on Instagram/YouTube.

 

[karlmb]

But with an attic that becomes warmer than the living space during the summer, there is a risk of condensation, which a vapor retarder handles better than a vapor barrier.

Ok. And would this then be something that becomes a big problem in certain houses? I guess that almost every house in Sweden experiences this during the summer when the sun is shining.
Try going up to your attic yourself.
And put your hand in the insulation.
If it were to be damp (allow me to doubt), what prevents the moisture from migrating upwards at night?