Lower the ceiling but keep the existing ceiling?

kimjohanss · 16 Dec 2018 at 2:38 AM

Hello! I'm working on renovations and have a question. I'm planning to lower my bedroom ceiling to install built-in spotlights. Currently, I have old, unattractive chipboard that's plastered, and it doesn't look great. I thought, instead of spending energy fixing the existing ceiling, I want to frame and lower it, then install a completely new one. The question is, how is it best done? Do I need to know where the current joists are to put up new ones? I'm completely novice at this and haven't found a good explanation for how to proceed when there's already a ceiling...

I'm considering this ceiling: https://www.byggmax.se/virke/innerpanel/takpanel/innertak-p1026

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:27 PM

Hi, are you sure it's chipboard and not tretex or something? I don't want to go against your dreams, but built-in spotlights have had their heyday, not least because they involve a lot of hassle - in fact, it's likely less work for you to just fix the existing ceiling and then put up a nice ceiling lamp. It might even be that there's a nice old wooden ceiling above the chipboard, and losing ceiling height is something I, at least, think is a shame.

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:38 PM

L Lärospånet said:
Hi, are you sure it's chipboard and not tretex or something? I don't want to go against your dreams but built-in spotlights have had their heyday, not least because they involve a lot of hassle - it would likely be less work for you to fix the existing ceiling and then put up a nice ceiling light. It may even be that there's a nice old wooden ceiling above the chipboard, and losing ceiling height is something that I, at least, think is a shame.

You're absolutely right! I've already checked online and I also realize that building in spotlights is quite outdated. I've seen ceiling lights with spotlights that you can build yourself, which I've thought about instead.

With that said, I have a new question. Can I put up a new ceiling against the old one? Just as long as you don't go through the plastic, right?

And lo and behold, you're right. It's tretex.

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:42 PM

K kimjohanss said:
You are absolutely right! I've already looked around online and also realize that building in spotlights is quite outdated. I've seen ceiling lights with spotlights that you can build yourself, which I am considering instead.

With that said, I have a new question. Can I put up a new ceiling against the old one? Just don't go through the plastic, right?

And lo and behold, you're right. It's tretex

Bring out the crowbar - you might have the nicest ceiling above it! (how old is the house?)

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:44 PM

L Lärospånet said:
Bring out the crowbar - you might have the nicest ceiling up there! (how old is the house?)

Well, I'd rather replace it with new since it has smelled like hell here! The house was built in '69!

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:47 PM

K kimjohanss said:
You are absolutely right! I've already looked around online and I also realize that building in spotlights is quite outdated. I've seen ceiling lamps with spotlights that you can build yourself, which I've been thinking about instead.

That said, I have a new question. Can I put up a new ceiling against the old one? Just as long as you don't go through the plastic, right?

And wouldn't you know it, you're right. It's tretex.

K kimjohanss said:
Well, I'm actually more inclined to replace it with new since it's smelled awful here! The house was built in '69!

Yeah, but then you wouldn't want to build over an old musty tretex - it's like a sponge that traps odors. Smell from smoking? '69 - then there's probably just raw boards above, but it would be perfect to build directly on with nice planks or the boards you found.

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:48 PM

L Lärospånet said:
Yes, but then you probably don't want to build with old, grubby tretex - it's like a sponge that traps odors. Odors from smoking? 69 - then there's probably only rough-hewn planks above, but it would be excellent to build directly on with nice boards or the sheets you found.

True! Yes, exactly, and a lot of chips up in the attic which becomes tedious to deal with

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:51 PM

K kimjohanss said:
True! Exactly, and a bunch of chips that are up in the attic which become boring to play with

So, is the attic floor insulated with a layer of loose sawdust or wood shavings that stink as well?

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:52 PM

L Lärospånet said:
So the attic floor is insulated with a layer of loose sawdust or wood shavings that stink too?

No, it doesn't stink. It's smoke smell from the previous owner.

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:52 PM

K kimjohanss said:
No, it doesn't stink. It's a smoke scent from the previous owner.

Exactly, that's what I meant. Scent is a nice word

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 9:59 PM

L Lärospånet said:
Just d, what I meant. Scent is a kind word

So it doesn't stink/smell, it's just the walls (the wallpaper) and the ceiling that do.

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:09 PM

K kimjohanss said:
So it doesn't stink/smell, it's just the walls (wallpaper) and the ceiling that's causing it

Ok, I understood it as the sawdust up there smelled too. But you might have meant that stuff will fall down if you remove the tretex? Yes, if the plank is sparse, that can happen (and if the insulation up there is lying directly on the plank of the underlayer).
You might need to paint the walls with stain-blocking paint to get rid of the smell from there (if you don't tear down the wallpaper too, and that in turn depends on what's under the wallpaper – it might be tretex there as well).

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:15 PM

You might even just have glesspont above the tretex by the way? You mentioned something about plastic, so maybe you've been up in the attic and found out exactly what is there layer by layer under the loose insulation?

kimjohanss · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:24 PM

L Lärospånet said:
Ok, I understood it as if the chipboard up there also smelled. But maybe you meant that stuff will fall down if you remove the three-ply board? Yes, if the board is sparse, that can happen (and if the insulation up there is lying directly on the underdeck's board.)
It might be that you need to paint the walls with blocking paint to get rid of the smell if you don't also tear down the wallpaper (and that in turn depends on what's under the wallpaper - there might be three-ply board there too).

No, there's no smell in the attic, only in the room itself.

Yes, exactly! The chipboard will come down with the ceiling if I remove it since the plastic is attached to the three-ply board (checked in the attic under all the chipboard).
I have blocked and painted, and wallpapered in this room. Can I therefore not block the ceiling and place new ceiling panels directly on the three-ply board? Or do I need to build a new frame?

Lärospånet · 22 Dec 2018 at 10:52 PM

K kimjohanss said:
No, there's no smell in the attic, only in the actual room.

Exactly! The sawdust will hang with the ceiling if I remove it since the plastic is attached to the tretex (I checked in the attic under all the sawdust).
I have blocked and painted, as well as wallpapered in this room. So, can I just block the ceiling and install new ceiling panels directly on the tretex? Or do I need to install new furring strips?

Yes, block paint the tretex in that case.
Can you find out the thickness of the tongue-and-groove from above? And check if it's sparse or dense - if it's sparse, measure the center-to-center dimensions. It should be fine to screw in the Byggmax boards as long as you don't use screws that are too long, which would puncture the plastic (plus you need to measure where the wood is if it's really sparse tongue-and-groove). Also, any furring strips have to be screwed into something too, so it's just as well to skip that, in my opinion. If the tretex is only slightly damaged and doesn't buckle across the entire ceiling, it should provide a smooth and nice surface as a base.