Level horizontal interior wall?

[shadowfire]

I just need to vent this here after a wild discussion at work
I've torn off the board material on the interior walls and exposed studs/old insulation and now plan to extend the studs by 45mm and add insulation plus run new electrical wiring.

My idea was to use 60cm centers and start with 30cm centers to create an offset and then insulate over the old seams to avoid thermal bridges. However, there aren't particularly many noggings in the old wall, mostly just vertical studs.

I've been advised by two independent people to stud horizontally instead. This way, each horizontal stud attaches to the old vertical studs, providing a more stable construction. What are your thoughts on this? I've never seen or heard of a horizontal interior wall.

 

[slacker]

Sorry, but add insulation to the interior wall? You mean exterior wall?
So yes, my entire house is additionally insulated as you describe, horizontally. Not a bad idea to avoid thermal bridges in studs, easy to attach panels and insulation to a horizontal framework.

Stable construction is probably an unnecessary discussion - I hope you had that from the start! :wow:

 

[Mikael_L]

Cross-bracing with horizontal 45x45mm on the inside or outside or pbs when the frame is well-established is the most common today. One reason is to break the thermal bridges the studs create. Another reason is that it provides space for running electrical conduits and such.

In the house I'm building now, there will be horizontal 45x45 pbs, on the outside it will be nice since the nail battens for the facade panels will have something proper to attach to.

On the inside, it's even better. I'll place the diffusion-tight plastic before these last 45x45 studs. The electrical wiring is done quickly and easily there, with no drilling in the studs. Horizontal VP pipes are just pulled and clamped, vertical pipes run behind the horizontal 45x45 by pushing the plastic in and pressing the insulation slightly behind.
In other words, no hole drilling in either the plastic or the studs.

Note: If you want diffusion-tight plastic between standing studs and horizontal 45x45, there must be at least 90mm insulation (with the same insulation value or better) outside. This is to ensure the dew point in the wall does not end up in an unsuitable place.

 

[shadowfire]

Sorry, but adding insulation to an inner wall? You mean outer wall?
Yes, my whole house is additionally insulated as you describe, horizontally. Not a bad idea to avoid thermal bridges in the studs, easy to install paneling and insulation on a horizontal framework.

Stable construction is probably an unnecessary discussion - I hope you had that from the start! :wow:

No, I mean inner wall
I've torn everything down to the floor due to mold damage, so I'm taking the opportunity to add insulation from the inside. It costs nothing with 45s and I also want to run new electrical wiring, which becomes incredibly easy if you add a framework.

 

[shadowfire]

Cross-bracing with horizontal 45x45mm inside or outside or pbs if the frame is probably the most common today.
Breaking the thermal bridges that the studs create is one of the reasons.
Having a space where you can run electrical conduits and such is another reason.

In the house I'm building now, there will be horizontal 45x45 pbs, on the outside it will be nice since the nailing studs for the facade panel will have something solid to attach to.

On the inside, it's even better. Then I set the vapor-proof plastic before these last 45x45-studs.
The electricity is drawn quickly and easily there, no drilling in the studs. Horizontal VP tubes are just drawn and clamped, vertical tubes are drawn behind the horizontal 45x45 by pushing in the plastic and pressing the insulation back a little.
Meaning no holes in either the plastic or the studs.

NOTE, If you are going to have vapor-proof plastic between standing studs and 45x45 horizontal, there must be at least 90mm of insulation (of the same insulation value or better) outside. This is so the dew point in the wall does not end up in a bad place.

So maybe it's not a bad idea to brace horizontally on the inside? I've never seen such a construction so far, but it's always fun to learn something new. Do you still drywall the panels standing on horizontal studs, or do you let the drywall go horizontally as well? For my part, I've already torn away the plastic, though, and plan to put new plastic on the innermost part.

Thanks for the good input!

 

[slacker]

No, I mean the inner wall
I've torn out everything down to the floor due to mold damage, so I'm taking the opportunity to add extra insulation from the inside. It costs nothing with 45ers and I also want to run new electricity, which will be incredibly easy if you frame out.

I'm from the forests of Norrland, so according to my wife, I'm strange for saying things like "skåparna" instead of "skåpen" in the kitchen.
In other words, for me, the inner wall is the wall between the kitchen and living room, for example. The outer wall is the wall between the kitchen and my wife's flower bed.

For my reindeer-herder brain to really understand what you mean, I take it that it's the INSIDE of the OUTER WALL that you want to insulate! :wow:

 

[shadowfire]

I'm from the forests of Norrland, so according to my wife, I'm strange for saying things like "skåparna" instead of "skåpen" in the kitchen.
In other words, for me, an inner wall is the wall between, for example, the kitchen and the living room. An outer wall is the wall between the kitchen and my wife's garden bed.

For my reindeer-herding brain to really understand what you mean, I take it as if it's the INSIDE of the OUTER WALL that you need to insulate! :wow:

Haha, I'm originally from Norrland too, but in my world, a partition wall is what you have between the kitchen and living room haha.. but YES, the inside of the outer wall!! d^_^b

 

[snickarboden]

Odd solution, and I wouldn't have done it that way; using upright studs, horizontal drywall doesn't sound fun at all. The facade is another matter as you adjust for the outer panel there. However, 45x45 is very shaky, so if possible, go for 45x70 instead, or alternatively, nail 45x45 directly onto the existing framework and skip trying to break the thermal bridges; it will only be marginal anyway.

/Kent

 

[Mikael_L]

With horizontal studs, horizontal drywall is probably better. Then you still need to find a solution where the drywall sheets meet without a stud behind them. If you brace there, you haven't gained anything in terms of electrical installations or broken thermal bridges.
Perhaps nail metal for drywall joints on the 45x45s where the sheets are to meet.

I don't have this problem since I'll be installing OSB first and then drywall. I lay the OSB down and then set the drywall vertically as usual. It's only in the outer wall corners that I have to set a drywall edge (I don't know what it's actually called).

existing framework and skip trying to break the thermal bridges, it will be marginal anyway.

/Kent

I actually agree with you that the benefit of cross-battening regarding thermal bridges is exaggerated.

 

[shadowfire]

Yes, I'm also thinking about those thermal bridges and how likely it is, etc. Unfortunately, the old studs are not spaced according to today's cc-measurements I noticed now, so if I install 45s standing on the old studs, it will be a championship in cutting insulation instead.

 

[Mäster]

Now I'm a bit groggy and may have missed something here, but as the workshop suggested, use 45x70 instead if you're going to have vertical framing without contact with the old wall, 45x45 risks becoming flimsy and crooked..
Yes, it will be an additional cost to buy more studs if you've already acquired 45x45, but I think it's one worth considering..

 

[Matti_75]

Place the 45x45 studs cc600mm. Then standing plasterboard. If you are going to have double plasterboard, offset the joints so you don't need to reinforce the joints. However, if you're going to have single plasterboard, reinforce with T- profiles. Put new plastic behind the 45 studs to get a tight and good house.

 

[shadowfire]

Now I'm a bit groggy and may have missed something here, but as the carpentry shop suggested, use 45x70 instead if you're going to have vertical framing without contact with the old wall, 45x45 risks becoming flimsy and crooked..
Yes, it will be an additional cost to buy more studs if you've already purchased 45x45, but I think that's a cost you can take on..

That's why I was wondering if it was customary to frame horizontally instead. Then I get the rigidity even with just 45s.

 

[shadowfire]

Place the 45x45 beams at 600mm centers. Then install standing drywall. If you're using double drywall, stagger the joints and you won't need to reinforce them. However, if you're using single drywall, reinforce with T-profiles. Put new plastic behind the 45 beams for a well-sealed and sturdy house.

Ah, that sounds like an idea! d^_^b