Is this load-bearing? Conflicting "facts".

[kudd3]

Hello!

First post here. Here's the long story.

My partner and I have been debating for years whether a wall is load-bearing or not. We've talked to everyone we can think of and have been told it should be load-bearing, but I won't give up!

The house is a single-story LB-house from 1967 with a basement and w-shaped roof trusses. Approximately 8m span. The wall I want to demolish runs along the house. Between the kitchen and living room.

What suggests the wall is load-bearing:
-The previous owner pointed at the wall and said "this is a heart wall."
-The neighbor has an almost identical house where the wall was removed and said the roof had sagged.
-Another neighbor braced the rafters when he did the same due to "friends in construction."

What suggests the wall is NOT load-bearing:
-W-shaped fall trusses
-The original documents say that only the outer walls are load-bearing
-The load-bearing wall in the basement runs straight through the house and the wall is not directly above it.

So all the anecdotes: THE HOUSE WILL COLLAPSE!
Everything else: Tear it down, just tear it down.

What the heck do you do? We don't feel like dragging an architect here just for this. Help!

Attaching the floor plan, original documents spec'ing load-bearing outer wall, and photo of the rafters. Highlighted in red what I want to remove.

 

[kudd3]

Yellow is, I forgot to mention, already demolished.

 

[13th Marine]

The wall is most likely not load-bearing, but as one of your neighbors said, the ceiling will sag a bit there since it has previously helped support the ceiling.

If possible, I would install a beam to prevent the ceiling from sagging, but it looks like it would be quite long. Preferably placed in the attic so that the roof trusses are suspended from it.

 

[Ingenjören]

Also claims that the wall is not load-bearing.

(and don't even think about asking an ARCHITECT for constructive advice... at least not generally

 

[kudd3]

The wall is most likely not load-bearing, but as one of your neighbors said, the ceiling will sag a little there since it previously helped support the roof.

If possible, I would place a beam to prevent the ceiling from sagging, but it looks like it will be quite long. Preferably placed in the attic so that the roof trusses hang in it.

Beam in the attic, out of sight, that sounds nice! Thanks for the answer!

 

[kudd3]

Also claims that the wall is not load-bearing.

(and don't even think about asking an ARCHITECT for constructive advice… at least not generally

Not load-bearing sounds excellent!

But who should one ask then? Is it a structural engineer in that case?

 

[fahlis]

What does the description say about the roof structure?
The attached description states that only the outer wall is load-bearing.
The drawing shows a free-spanning truss, which is used precisely when you want to avoid load-bearing interior walls.
But what do I know, having been just an architect for 40+ years, about construction ...

 

[kudd3]

What does the description say about the roof construction?
The attached description says that only the outer wall is load-bearing.
The drawing shows a free-spanning roof truss, which is used precisely when you want to avoid load-bearing interior walls.
But what do I know, having been an architect for only 40+ years, about construction...

This is what it says about the roof. Regarding architects' expertise, I'm not going to claim that I know anything.

 

[justusandersson]

The wall is clearly not intended to be load-bearing from the start. Changes regarding the function of the attic joist structure may have altered the conditions. For example, it might be used for storage, have significant additional insulation, or something else. If this hasn't happened, you can remove the wall without problems. In this context, one cannot rely on neighbors. It's not certain that the circumstances are identical.
Regarding architects' knowledge of this and similar issues, I would like to say the following: older architects generally have better knowledge of building construction than most engineers, except for civil engineers/engineering graduates from Road and Water. All architects, regardless of age, have better knowledge of house construction than engineers. However, one must be aware of the differences in focus. Architects are more generalists than other groups.

 

[fahlis]

In plain text, self-supporting, meaning no load-bearing inner wall.
Assuming it is built according to the description and drawings (double-check to be sure), you just need to bring out the crowbar ...

 

[kudd3]

The wall is clearly not intended to be load-bearing from the start. Changes in the function of the attic floor structure may have altered the conditions. For example, through being used for storage, significant additional insulation, or something else. If this hasn't happened, you can remove the wall without any problems. In this context, you cannot rely on neighbors. It's not certain that conditions are identical.
Regarding architects' knowledge of this and similar problems, I would like to say the following. Older architects generally have better knowledge of building construction than most engineers, with the exception of civil engineers/University engineers from Road and Water. All architects, regardless of age, have better knowledge in building construction than engineers. Then you need to be aware of the differences in focus. Architects are more generalists than other groups.

In plain text, non-load-bearing, i.e. no load-bearing core wall.
Assuming it's built according to description and drawing (double-check to be safe) you can just get the crowbar out …

Thanks! Truly and sincerely, thank you. Now I know that there's additional insulation up there and we need to take that into account and/or modify it somehow, but getting confirmation that I was right in essence is incredibly satisfying. Ha!

And additional thanks for the clarification on what knowledge I can expect from different roles. It was much appreciated!

 

[Ingenjören]

A few clues and tips on why the wall is not load-bearing:
(based on your drawing - you should verify with reality yourself)

• The wall does not stand directly over the foundation wall in the basement but is out on the floor structure
• The wall does not connect to any junction point in the truss but in the middle of the bottom chord
• W-trusses with spans as short as 8m are almost always designed to be self-supporting
• The text in the description states that only the exterior walls are load-bearing (however, the foundation wall in the basement is evidently load-bearing so the text in these standard templates is not entirely clear...)

However, I agree with the comments above such as:

• The neighboring houses do not need to have the same construction even if they look alike.
• The house may have been remodeled in some way that makes the conditions not match the drawings.

Installing a beam in this case feels completely wrong since a beam with such a long span becomes very high to achieve the stiffness needed to replace the wall, and since it supports the trusses in the middle of the bottom chord and not at any junction point, the result is worse for the construction. The bottom chord in a self-supporting truss is not actually dimensioned for such a load case (even though it may, in practice, have settled over time on the existing wall that has thus become involuntarily "load-bearing"...)

I apologize if I've offended any architects - there are many talented ones out there but, generally, I claim that you should ask an experienced structural engineer/designer first when it comes to load-bearing structures and changes to them ;-)

 

[Anna_H]

Agree with those who say that the wall does not seem to be load-bearing but could very well support the ceiling.