Hello,
We have purchased 4 windows (2 for the basement and 2 for the living room), all from SP windows, with aluminum on the outside and wood on the inside. The windows will be installed by craftsmen at the beginning of next year, but it might be good to clarify in advance to ensure they meet the right standards.
What I mean is that they are not in perfect condition; there are some scratches and marks here and there, and my question is simply whether this is something one should expect with new windows?
Top of the frame
Larger images here: http://imgur.com/a/SyC6E
We have purchased 4 windows (2 for the basement and 2 for the living room), all from SP windows, with aluminum on the outside and wood on the inside. The windows will be installed by craftsmen at the beginning of next year, but it might be good to clarify in advance to ensure they meet the right standards.
What I mean is that they are not in perfect condition; there are some scratches and marks here and there, and my question is simply whether this is something one should expect with new windows?
Top of the frame
Larger images here: http://imgur.com/a/SyC6E
On the outside of the frame doesn't matter. SP also has pre-drilled frame screw holes (I just installed a couple of windows yesterday). So the durability should not be affected anyway.
The cosmetic defects you should probably point out directly to SP and maybe negotiate a discount and live with it. Or replace and wait X weeks for a new delivery.
However, mine were WELL wrapped. Weren't yours?
The cosmetic defects you should probably point out directly to SP and maybe negotiate a discount and live with it. Or replace and wait X weeks for a new delivery.
However, mine were WELL wrapped. Weren't yours?
Aha, yes, I suspected that defects (cracks and similar) on the frames themselves didn't matter much, as it will probably be insulated there. One might wonder if it could open up and let dirt in between the panes, but I assume it would have to crack quite a bit.
The 2 larger windows at the back, which are lighter in color, have plastic around them and seem to have fared better on the aluminum parts. You can still see that there was something rubbing against them, as seen in picture 3, i.e., you can't see metal.
The 2 smaller panes were standing alone and had probably been removed from the pallet earlier, and there was no plastic on them. The blemishes there seem to be down to the metal, but then how picky should one be? It's probably not something you'd notice from 2 meters away. The question is more about the durability; could the metal possibly corrode more easily?
Then I also wonder if there should really be gaps like the one seen in picture 4 at the corner of the aluminum side closest to the glass?
The 2 larger windows at the back, which are lighter in color, have plastic around them and seem to have fared better on the aluminum parts. You can still see that there was something rubbing against them, as seen in picture 3, i.e., you can't see metal.
The 2 smaller panes were standing alone and had probably been removed from the pallet earlier, and there was no plastic on them. The blemishes there seem to be down to the metal, but then how picky should one be? It's probably not something you'd notice from 2 meters away. The question is more about the durability; could the metal possibly corrode more easily?
Then I also wonder if there should really be gaps like the one seen in picture 4 at the corner of the aluminum side closest to the glass?
It's hard to form an impression with really high-resolution close-ups. I think you should listen to yourself first and foremost. "Is it something that will bother you? Is it worth arguing about?"
Unfortunately, small flaws exist on all windows if you look closely. But of course, one shouldn't tolerate just anything.
Unfortunately, small flaws exist on all windows if you look closely. But of course, one shouldn't tolerate just anything.
My partner works as a window builder (though not at SP) but there is a problem that dark and colored aluminum profiles are easily damaged and get visible marks during production and handling, which they also scrap a lot of at the factory. So I think your complaint may be justified, as new should be new and nice!
We have just installed new windows with the same configuration as yours (aluminum outside and wood inside). They arrived properly wrapped, on a pallet, and although there were some small (!) blemishes on the outside (the part that's in the wall) of the frames, the visible parts were "perfect." That is, no cracks, no scrapes, no scratches, etc. Which is what I expect when I buy NEW windows. It's different if it's a mistake order being sold at a discount, or almost new ones that have already been installed....
I would not have accepted NEW windows being scratched and scuffed before even being installed. I would have at least demanded a discount, but not necessarily from SP - those who unpacked the windows from the plastic could very well be responsible for some of the scratches.
I think you should talk to your dealer first, precisely because they were unpacked and the original packaging had been broken.
I would not have accepted NEW windows being scratched and scuffed before even being installed. I would have at least demanded a discount, but not necessarily from SP - those who unpacked the windows from the plastic could very well be responsible for some of the scratches.
I think you should talk to your dealer first, precisely because they were unpacked and the original packaging had been broken.
The gas is not contained by the frame. The sash holds a glass unit that is a complete entity. You can, therefore, remove the glass unit (and replace it) without the gas leaking out.
It is good to buy Swedish windows from a Swedish dealer. When you contact your retailer, everything will work out because SP cares about their reputation. They replace it, that's my experience, and SP deserves praise for that. This way, we continue to buy, among other things, Swedish SP windows.
Agree. I received my windows the day before yesterday, and two were transport damaged, not much but a couple of mm of paint was scraped off down to the aluminum in a very visible place.magnetens said:
I first got the comment that it could be painted over... I explained that if I want to buy renovation windows, I will do so and at a lower price, but these are new. They took back the windows and I received new ones delivered yesterday.
The company can still sell these windows but at a reduced price to someone who is okay with the damage.
I have replaced a number of windows and doors at home (though not SP) and am surprised by the low level of quality. Large windows that come on a pallet with only one layer of plastic over them, and exterior doors that arrive completely unprotected. It is quite obvious that these windows and doors will sustain damage during transport.hangun said:
In every case I have complained, it has resulted in a refund. The amount of money I received depended on the size and significance of the defect (returning large windows and exterior doors is not an option unless there are very large defects that affect the function, and fortunately, that has never been the case for me).
The interesting thing is that I have never had to argue; the money has been paid out without the slightest discussion. It is pleasant in a way, but one gets the feeling that window manufacturers and their dealers are fully aware that many customers are not satisfied with the product they have purchased, and that it is simplest to just "buy themselves free" from the problem, rather than establishing production and distribution that does not cause defects in their products.
And I have only bought windows and doors from Swedish manufacturers and through Swedish dealers.
Next time I shall try buying from abroad just to see if they handle their products better and protect them from damage in a better way
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If you want to compare, I bought 10 windows and an exterior door with larger windows from Skånska byggvaror. Admittedly, they were wooden windows (triple-glazed) and were transported up to Umeå. The windows were delivered standing, screwed with a bundle of planks in the frames, cardboard around edges/corners, and everything was wrapped in plastic about three hundred times.
Only a few small damages, the size of 10-öre coins, were discovered on these, but they ended up at the insulation/salning, so it was no problem. The door had a tiny damage for which they sent a "nail polish" to fix it. Otherwise, there were no issues despite them being low-priced variants.
If I had received aluminum windows like those in the pictures, I probably would have been annoyed, especially since these are generally more expensive than wood.
Only a few small damages, the size of 10-öre coins, were discovered on these, but they ended up at the insulation/salning, so it was no problem. The door had a tiny damage for which they sent a "nail polish" to fix it. Otherwise, there were no issues despite them being low-priced variants.
If I had received aluminum windows like those in the pictures, I probably would have been annoyed, especially since these are generally more expensive than wood.
Now I can't see the images since Imgur is blocked where I'm sitting, but I'm a bit concerned if something is scuffed and scratched when it comes new from the factory. Either the factory has been careless with handling during production, or the transport company hasn't done it right.
If it's poorly packaged, the transporter should speak up; otherwise, they have presumably accepted the packaging and should be responsible for it being OK when it arrives.
I received my new windows delivered two weeks ago, and they came on pallets, with an "shell" of OSB on all painted sides or where the glass was. On each side of the "packages," there was a screw driven in at the bottom and one at the top of the frame so they remained still, and then the OSB was pulled down on each side of the pallet and screwed into it.
Between each frame, there was a distance of about one cm so that it couldn't scratch against anything.
The forklift driver who was supposed to lift them and the truck driver said these were the best-packaged windows they had seen!
The forklift guy said it's not uncommon for windows to just be held together with a bit of cardboard between each frame and then plastic wrapped a few times around. Supports of 45x45 or similar are attached with straps around the frame, so you lift by the frame. He said that in such cases, you're always afraid it will come apart/break when lifting.
Apparently, it's particularly bad when they come from the Baltics or Poland. Swedish window manufacturers seem to be a bit better, but they rarely come on pallets.
It seems that the suppliers count on there being some complaints, but it's cheaper to handle than packaging more/better.
Cracks in the frame wood on the outside don't necessarily need to be a problem if it doesn't continue to crack and also warp; it depends a bit on why it's cracked.
Hope it works out and that you're satisfied with the new windows whether you get new ones or get a discount/new paint to apply.
It's not fun to build new and then have to see those damages in the future.
If it's poorly packaged, the transporter should speak up; otherwise, they have presumably accepted the packaging and should be responsible for it being OK when it arrives.
I received my new windows delivered two weeks ago, and they came on pallets, with an "shell" of OSB on all painted sides or where the glass was. On each side of the "packages," there was a screw driven in at the bottom and one at the top of the frame so they remained still, and then the OSB was pulled down on each side of the pallet and screwed into it.
Between each frame, there was a distance of about one cm so that it couldn't scratch against anything.
The forklift driver who was supposed to lift them and the truck driver said these were the best-packaged windows they had seen!
The forklift guy said it's not uncommon for windows to just be held together with a bit of cardboard between each frame and then plastic wrapped a few times around. Supports of 45x45 or similar are attached with straps around the frame, so you lift by the frame. He said that in such cases, you're always afraid it will come apart/break when lifting.
Apparently, it's particularly bad when they come from the Baltics or Poland. Swedish window manufacturers seem to be a bit better, but they rarely come on pallets.
It seems that the suppliers count on there being some complaints, but it's cheaper to handle than packaging more/better.
Cracks in the frame wood on the outside don't necessarily need to be a problem if it doesn't continue to crack and also warp; it depends a bit on why it's cracked.
Hope it works out and that you're satisfied with the new windows whether you get new ones or get a discount/new paint to apply.
It's not fun to build new and then have to see those damages in the future.
New should be new, this is not acceptable. When I bought 14 windows for around 100,000 SEK, they were completely flawless. But opted for PVC Rehau Nordic Plus, don't know if PVC is more durable?