I have torn down the knee wall now the whole house is thumping

[Johanbogg]

Isn't it quite unusual for vertical studs on a knee wall to have tensile strength? Do you have an example of that? I'm always interested in learning more!

Takes up the tensile force from the roof trying to blow away or the floor collapsing

 

[LindaCu]

Isn't it important for a designer to take in more info then? What is the cc measurement between the roof trusses? Have the impact sounds always been there but are perceived more due to a change in material/volume of the room? Have any subfloors been replaced, etc., etc. How did the knee wall really look and what were the dimensions of the "support legs"? Have I missed something?

I tore everything down on my upstairs. All the way out to the support legs and the knee walls could hardly have played a role in the construction. Junky studs and particle boards. Though, I did put up new walls afterward. I experience a lot of thumping and impact sounds downstairs, but that's due to how the house was originally built. 1940s

Yes, absolutely, if I had been given the assignment at my job. Now this is a forum, so I respond based on experience. The cc distance between roof trusses is almost always 1200 mm. The original poster wrote that the sway and impact sounds appeared after tearing down the knee wall, and based on the drawing that was included, I can see right away that they were load-bearing.

Now that I have looked at your drawings, your attic and the original poster's attic do not have the same mechanism. In your case, they were not load-bearing. But if this were easy and the mechanism always obvious, then constructors would not be needed. =)

 

[Urbota]

The reason it thuds on the floor is that you have extended the span of the joists, thereby getting deflection. The support legs also function as supports (hangers) for the floor joists. In a framework, everything interacts in various ways.

Thank you. This is an absurd experiment that doesn't require discussion. However, for a while, it seemed as if everyone thought that studs could only take compressive loads. But the roof stands on the studs just as much as the roof supports the floor. And some other things. It is ONE construction. The only reasonable advice is to hire a structural engineer who can do the on-site examination and who doesn't give anonymous tips (as I'm doing now...) but who takes legal responsibility for their advice. Anything else would be irresponsible.

/Urbota

 

[Plupp 492966]

Despite the alarming responses you've received, I want to reassure you a little. I did the same on my house from 1937 and that in the early 80s, long before you could get answers to questions here. Nothing negative has happened despite snowy winters. I believe that when no one calculated what the rafters could bear, they went with considerable dimensions, so it holds up anyway. But that said, since you feel a difference, you should have someone knowledgeable in construction take a look at it.

I absolutely do not agree with that because at that time, sometimes there were groove roofs or clay tiles that are not so heavy, if you don't know what you're doing then don't do it is my advice!

 

[DrDengrot]

Isn't it quite uncommon for vertical studs on a knee wall to have tensile load? Do you have an example of that? I'm always interested in learning more!

Sometimes the studs take compressive load and sometimes tensile load. It depends on the relationship between vertical loads on the roof and the subframe/floor, which includes horizontal load components in the event of wind loads. That is: a lot of load on the roof, and little load on the floor: compressive load in the knee wall studs. Little load on the roof and a lot of load on the floor: tensile load on the studs.

Take this course so you can calculate it yourself:
https://www.kth.se/student/kurser/kurs/AF1006








and floor

 

[Johanbogg]

Sometimes the studs are subject to compressive forces and sometimes tensile forces. It depends on the ratio between vertical loads on the roof and the lower frame/floor, which, in the case of wind loads, includes horizontal load components. That is: a lot of load on the roof, and a small load on the floor: compressive forces in the attic studs. Small load on the roof and a lot of load on the floor: tensile forces on the studs.

Take this course so you can calculate it yourself:
[link]

and floor

then there is always a case where the forces cancel each other out and you get zero or very small load.

 

[Urbota]

then there is always a case where the forces cancel each other out and you get zero or very little load.

In general, one ideally wants some form of static load because the movements with dynamic load are smaller. But sure: you have to be able to see things at the right system level and not just look at one rule at a time.

/Urbota

 

[Johanbogg]

Generally, one would like to have some form of static load because the movements under dynamic load are smaller. But sure: you have to be able to see things at the right system level and not just look at one rule at a time.

/Urbota

Yes, I don't disagree there; I think many would benefit from playing a little Pontifex or something similar to see everything in itself.

 

[Urbota]

Yes, not disagreeing there, I think many would feel better playing a bit of Pontifex or similar to see everything in themselves

Haha. Awesome answer.

/Urbota

 

[degi]

That @degi is so tired of his newly renovated bathroom that he weakened the whole house so that it would collapse on its own.

Haha

Hello!

We bought a 50s wooden house that we have renovated.
One thing we did was remove the storage eaves to get "bigger rooms"

BUT

When you walk on the upper floor, it "thuds" a lot. (didn't do that before)
The closer you get to the removed storage eaves wall, the more it thuds.
(it thuds when my 4-year-old walks up there and we're sitting downstairs, so very sensitive)

The beams that go are very substantial, I tried to add even more joists in between, but it didn't work.
Now I'm starting to think that the walls of the storage eaves had a function that pressed down the beam that runs along the long side of the house, making it "rigid"

In the places where we still have the storage eaves, the floor is excellent.
Anyone experienced the same?

My thought is to put up a couple of hefty joists that "press down" this beam at the wall sides.

Or does anyone have a tip?
Would be very grateful for that.

Here's a picture when the floor is open, and the green line is where the storage eaves were previously.

Hello!

I'm alive and the house too... for now...
Have a constructor on G who will come and take a look.
Thanks for the enormous commitment.
It is true, as many pointed out, that I have a damn bathroom issue too on another thread.

The whole thing is about buying a house that needed renovation.
I have had quite a big renovation budget and some knowledge, so I've had 3-4 major projects going on all the time that I completely lost control over... and now when things start to "sort themselves out" I discover all the mistakes that have been made.
So now I'm stuck and need to call and nag about fixing jobs.

 

[Hybro]

One learns over time.

Not fully learned yet, even though it's nearing 70.

 

[Snigla]

You are NEVER fully learned (for better or worse).

There are always new mistakes to make, things to screw up.. experiences to learn (more or less) from

Life in a nutshell

(you learn as long as you live)

 

[TommyC]

Imagine how boring life would be if one could become fully learned.

 

[Kieron]

Hi! How did it go with your stabilizer legs? Did you have any problems with the snow?

 

[Snigla]

Last active April 23 - let's hope everything went well!