If you disregard the waterproofing issue (which might not be as urgent at the doorway), you could raise the entire door with the frame and all. Remove trim, unscrew frame screws or use a reciprocating saw on nails, remove the frame, use a reciprocating or circular saw to cut a couple of centimeters from the wall above the door, place a board at the bottom, and reinstall the door. You can fix this in half a day.
Thomas59
Construction veteran
· Stockholms län
· 3 321 posts
Thomas59
Construction veteran
- Stockholms län
- 3,321 posts
I can probably agree that the waterproofing issue, in this case, might be of academic interest regarding the risk of damage.
The waterproofing or, rather, wet room problem has several aspects:
1/ Risk
The rules are basically developed to reduce, or in theory eliminate, moisture damage in wet rooms.
Some of the rules may seem too far-reaching or however you want to express it. If you know what you're doing, some types of deviations might indeed be considered okay anyway. For example, thinking about the threshold in this case. The risk of moisture damage is likely small, and a raised threshold with plenty of silicone between the edge of the tiles and the threshold would probably give the same result as the threshold. However, it's not allowed.
The same goes for regular plasterboard, OSB, lack of noggins, double waterproofing, etc. Not allowed.
A (calculated) risk simply put, and many who do their own wet rooms also take these risks. Both knowledgeable people who have their own theories on how wet rooms can be executed, and less knowledgeable people who cut corners without really knowing how the rules look. More based on general common sense.
Not saying these deviations are okay, but done correctly, the risk should still be small, and there's no general ban on performing wet rooms by your own design.
However, this only applies as long as you perform the wet room privately. A company, according to the consumer services law, must carry out work in a professional manner, in this case, according to the wet room regulations. There is no room for personal ideas, which some seem to believe.
2/ Second-hand value
Even if the risk is small or calculated, it is nonetheless a DEVIATION from the regulations, and in a future sale, the buyer should be informed that the wet room is NOT professionally executed.
THAT, in turn, CAN lead to the buyer simply deducting the purchase price equivalent to the renovation of the wet room or choosing another property as they do not want to start renovating.
What you "save" on shortcuts and deviations can quickly be eaten up by a lower selling price.
If the market is strong, the price might not be affected, but you can never know that in advance.
3/ Insurance issue
Compensation can be denied or reduced if the wet room is not professionally executed. Companies have different practices, and much depends on which claims adjuster you are assigned. Some operate under the motto: If it's performed correctly, there will be no moisture damage - if there is moisture damage, it is not professionally executed = no compensation. The insurance companies’ own Catch-22!
4/ Hidden defect
Possibly a semantic aspect. If the deviation from the regulations is deliberate, it cannot be considered a hidden defect since it requires that the seller was unaware of the defect. If the seller (who did the wet room) is unaware of the faulty execution, as a seller, you could then risk claims for compensation for a hidden defect. If you were aware of the defect, you could also be liable for compensation but on other grounds.
An aspect of the hidden defect issue is that you can end up in trouble EVEN if it technically/objectively is not a hidden defect.
Just the risk of a long, costly process with an uncertain outcome can lead many to consider a settlement. If you go to trial, you can still lose if you do not manage to present your case in a way that the court so to speak "buys."
In practice, you can be liable for compensation even if it is not clearly a hidden defect.
Conclusion: a ticking time bomb in both cases.
For those considering making deviations, it might be wise to evaluate the different aspects above before deciding how to proceed.
REGARDING THE THRESHOLD
There's probably no major risk no matter how you solve the transition. Transition strip, raised threshold, or another solution. You can sleep well. The day you sell, you should inform the buyer about the deviation. If you're lucky, the buyer might just say: Oh. If you're unlucky, they might haggle a bit.
No big deal!
The waterproofing or, rather, wet room problem has several aspects:
1/ Risk
The rules are basically developed to reduce, or in theory eliminate, moisture damage in wet rooms.
Some of the rules may seem too far-reaching or however you want to express it. If you know what you're doing, some types of deviations might indeed be considered okay anyway. For example, thinking about the threshold in this case. The risk of moisture damage is likely small, and a raised threshold with plenty of silicone between the edge of the tiles and the threshold would probably give the same result as the threshold. However, it's not allowed.
The same goes for regular plasterboard, OSB, lack of noggins, double waterproofing, etc. Not allowed.
A (calculated) risk simply put, and many who do their own wet rooms also take these risks. Both knowledgeable people who have their own theories on how wet rooms can be executed, and less knowledgeable people who cut corners without really knowing how the rules look. More based on general common sense.
Not saying these deviations are okay, but done correctly, the risk should still be small, and there's no general ban on performing wet rooms by your own design.
However, this only applies as long as you perform the wet room privately. A company, according to the consumer services law, must carry out work in a professional manner, in this case, according to the wet room regulations. There is no room for personal ideas, which some seem to believe.
2/ Second-hand value
Even if the risk is small or calculated, it is nonetheless a DEVIATION from the regulations, and in a future sale, the buyer should be informed that the wet room is NOT professionally executed.
THAT, in turn, CAN lead to the buyer simply deducting the purchase price equivalent to the renovation of the wet room or choosing another property as they do not want to start renovating.
What you "save" on shortcuts and deviations can quickly be eaten up by a lower selling price.
If the market is strong, the price might not be affected, but you can never know that in advance.
3/ Insurance issue
Compensation can be denied or reduced if the wet room is not professionally executed. Companies have different practices, and much depends on which claims adjuster you are assigned. Some operate under the motto: If it's performed correctly, there will be no moisture damage - if there is moisture damage, it is not professionally executed = no compensation. The insurance companies’ own Catch-22!
4/ Hidden defect
Possibly a semantic aspect. If the deviation from the regulations is deliberate, it cannot be considered a hidden defect since it requires that the seller was unaware of the defect. If the seller (who did the wet room) is unaware of the faulty execution, as a seller, you could then risk claims for compensation for a hidden defect. If you were aware of the defect, you could also be liable for compensation but on other grounds.
An aspect of the hidden defect issue is that you can end up in trouble EVEN if it technically/objectively is not a hidden defect.
Just the risk of a long, costly process with an uncertain outcome can lead many to consider a settlement. If you go to trial, you can still lose if you do not manage to present your case in a way that the court so to speak "buys."
In practice, you can be liable for compensation even if it is not clearly a hidden defect.
Conclusion: a ticking time bomb in both cases.
For those considering making deviations, it might be wise to evaluate the different aspects above before deciding how to proceed.
REGARDING THE THRESHOLD
There's probably no major risk no matter how you solve the transition. Transition strip, raised threshold, or another solution. You can sleep well. The day you sell, you should inform the buyer about the deviation. If you're lucky, the buyer might just say: Oh. If you're unlucky, they might haggle a bit.
No big deal!
As mentioned earlier, it is actually incorrect and cannot be corrected without redoing everything if you want it 100% properly executed.
However, the industry regulations state that...:
If a threshold is missing, retrofitted, or is lower than 20 mm, an agreement should be made with the client on how the ending or uplift of the waterproof membrane against the threshold should be executed.
The level of the waterproof membrane at the doorway must be at least 20 mm above the top edge of the floor drain.
Thus, you can indeed exclude the responsibility of an uplift with an agreement, and if the level of the waterproof membrane at the doorway is at least 20 mm above the top edge of the drain, it is fairly adequate after all.
It is quite easy to place a spirit level against the floor tiles at the doorway and direct it towards the drain, measuring the distance between the level and the drain when it is level.
Take this measurement and subtract the thickness of the tiles and adhesive to determine how high above the drain top edge the waterproof membrane sits at the door.
If it is more than 20 mm, I personally would not require anything other than extending the threshold with a strip for a more appealing appearance.
As Thomas mentions, it is also not particularly easy to seal with lots of silicone, as you cannot get silicone into the space between the waterproof membrane and the top of the tiles between the tiles and the extension of the threshold.
However, the industry regulations state that...:
If a threshold is missing, retrofitted, or is lower than 20 mm, an agreement should be made with the client on how the ending or uplift of the waterproof membrane against the threshold should be executed.
The level of the waterproof membrane at the doorway must be at least 20 mm above the top edge of the floor drain.
Thus, you can indeed exclude the responsibility of an uplift with an agreement, and if the level of the waterproof membrane at the doorway is at least 20 mm above the top edge of the drain, it is fairly adequate after all.
It is quite easy to place a spirit level against the floor tiles at the doorway and direct it towards the drain, measuring the distance between the level and the drain when it is level.
Take this measurement and subtract the thickness of the tiles and adhesive to determine how high above the drain top edge the waterproof membrane sits at the door.
If it is more than 20 mm, I personally would not require anything other than extending the threshold with a strip for a more appealing appearance.
As Thomas mentions, it is also not particularly easy to seal with lots of silicone, as you cannot get silicone into the space between the waterproof membrane and the top of the tiles between the tiles and the extension of the threshold.
Thomas59
Construction veteran
· Stockholms län
· 3 321 posts
Thomas59
Construction veteran
- Stockholms län
- 3,321 posts
Yes, it's probably as you write and should be redone.Paul-Staffanstorp said:
I mentioned in one of my previous posts the possibility of making an agreement for deviations under certain conditions. This possibility is not intended as a way out for the craftsman in the case where the craftsman is caught with an incorrect construction.
The agreement should be made BEFORE the work is carried out and the deviation can only be made under certain conditions.
The silicone alternative is, as Paul writes, not 100% but compared to the risk it might be okay.
If you (TS) can live with the risk of moisture damage at the threshold (probably small) and a possibly lowered selling price at some point in the future, the only thing left is to tidy up the threshold and then make a substantial deduction on the invoice.
Thank you for many great answers!
However, I feel incredibly confused now, is this a ticking bomb? What have I gotten myself into?
If I point this out to the tile setter, he will of course respond that the threshold was initially so low that he couldn't apply the waterproofing on it.
What do I say to that?
What does waterproofing look like? Can you see it? Am I sure that the outer edge of the tiles (what you see in the picture) is covered with waterproofing?
However, I feel incredibly confused now, is this a ticking bomb? What have I gotten myself into?
If I point this out to the tile setter, he will of course respond that the threshold was initially so low that he couldn't apply the waterproofing on it.
What do I say to that?
What does waterproofing look like? Can you see it? Am I sure that the outer edge of the tiles (what you see in the picture) is covered with waterproofing?
Then you should tell him that it would have been his responsibility to build up the threshold before he laid the waterproofing membrane so he could have made a turn-up according to industry standards.savio said:
It's his problem to do it professionally and take the necessary measures for this.
You can't see the waterproofing membrane in your picture as it only lies under the tiles and ends where the tiles end.
So there's no waterproofing membrane against the cut edge of your tiles.
The waterproofing membrane is a rubber compound that is usually gray, but there are quite a few different shades of it.
You might be able to glimpse it just between the threshold and the underside of the tiles.