Self-builder
· Östergötland
· 1 837 posts
Hi, I'm in the process of building a garage and will soon be pouring the slab.
I then plan to lay a 2"4 frame around the entire slab to attach standing studs on top of this frame. I will use some kind of asphalt felt or similar to prevent moisture from rising from the slab into the wooden framework, but how do you most easily attach the frame to the slab itself?
Is there something you can hammer into the slab without needing to drill? It feels like it will take too long if you have to pre-drill.
I've been advised to use regular screws with plugs or expansion bolts, but the latter feels like overkill.
Does anyone have any good tips for me?
Best regards, Patrik
I then plan to lay a 2"4 frame around the entire slab to attach standing studs on top of this frame. I will use some kind of asphalt felt or similar to prevent moisture from rising from the slab into the wooden framework, but how do you most easily attach the frame to the slab itself?
Is there something you can hammer into the slab without needing to drill? It feels like it will take too long if you have to pre-drill.
I've been advised to use regular screws with plugs or expansion bolts, but the latter feels like overkill.
Does anyone have any good tips for me?
Best regards, Patrik
Self-builder
· Östergötland
· 1 837 posts
ok, what do you recommend for bolts then, expander? how close should they be placed in that case?
feels like it would be serious to use such bolts, they definitely hold well and maybe you don't have to place them so close together?
I have about 40 meters around the slab
feels like it would be serious to use such bolts, they definitely hold well and maybe you don't have to place them so close together?
I have about 40 meters around the slab
Hi there!
I bought expansion screws at Optimera, 25 pack 140 mm for my sill. However, I had a layer of leca under the sill. Between the sill and leca, I had sill paper from Byggmax.
I drilled right through the sill with a concrete drill down into the leca, without hammer, just drilling. Otherwise, the leca blocks would probably have cracked.
I asked at Optimera if they knew how close they should be placed but they had never seen a cc measurement, but I used all 25 spread out on my garage 5.5 m * 6 m. One side is the gate, so there weren't as many there. But they were just enough.
Here is a pretty good sketch otherwise:
http://www.beijerbygg.se/templates/BB_ByggradListItem.aspx?id=11795#Regelkonstruktion
If I understand it correctly, the black dots above the sill are sill bolts.
I guess that cc is 1200mm.
Best regards,
Fredrik
I bought expansion screws at Optimera, 25 pack 140 mm for my sill. However, I had a layer of leca under the sill. Between the sill and leca, I had sill paper from Byggmax.
I drilled right through the sill with a concrete drill down into the leca, without hammer, just drilling. Otherwise, the leca blocks would probably have cracked.
I asked at Optimera if they knew how close they should be placed but they had never seen a cc measurement, but I used all 25 spread out on my garage 5.5 m * 6 m. One side is the gate, so there weren't as many there. But they were just enough.
Here is a pretty good sketch otherwise:
http://www.beijerbygg.se/templates/BB_ByggradListItem.aspx?id=11795#Regelkonstruktion
If I understand it correctly, the black dots above the sill are sill bolts.
I guess that cc is 1200mm.
Best regards,
Fredrik
How will you build the slab? Will you use L-elements of foam plastic? If so, don't forget to hollow out a bit of the foam where you will attach your sill. It usually doesn't hold very well in the styrofoam.patriklarsson said:
Self-builder
· Östergötland
· 1 837 posts
Hello and thank you for all the answers!
M10x125mm seems to exist, so the bolt will extend almost 80mm into the slab, which should be enough. The only issue is if you accidentally drill directly into the rebar?
If you calculate 1.2m per bolt, about 30 should be enough, which seems to cost around 1000 SEK?
I will probably use L-corner elements, but as mentioned, they are beveled on top and I will likely place the sill 40mm inside the outer edge, so it should end up inside the insulation, and then I should be able to drill in the center.
So, it should be possible to drill straight through the wooden beam and down into the concrete with a really good drill with a 10mm bit?
How much does it cost to rent one for a day?
No cinder blocks, just directly on the slab with a couple of layers of sill paper in between.
M10x125mm seems to exist, so the bolt will extend almost 80mm into the slab, which should be enough. The only issue is if you accidentally drill directly into the rebar?
If you calculate 1.2m per bolt, about 30 should be enough, which seems to cost around 1000 SEK?
I will probably use L-corner elements, but as mentioned, they are beveled on top and I will likely place the sill 40mm inside the outer edge, so it should end up inside the insulation, and then I should be able to drill in the center.
So, it should be possible to drill straight through the wooden beam and down into the concrete with a really good drill with a 10mm bit?
How much does it cost to rent one for a day?
No cinder blocks, just directly on the slab with a couple of layers of sill paper in between.
We use regular slagexpander... just drill (10 mm) then drive in the expander nail... 90 long should be sufficient... then it goes down approximately 45mm into the concrete...
Got the comment earlier that you might get some drill shavings under the beam, but I certainly laid out the sill paper and the beam, and then happily drilled right through everything, set the bolt, and was happy and content. However, I'll give you another tip. Consider building the entire frame for the wall first, lying on the slab, and then you just raise it and attach it. It's significantly easier to build downward standing on your knees than upward standing on a ladder.
Self-builder
· Östergötland
· 1 837 posts
My price on expansion bolts was completely wrong, according to some Norwegian pdf file online, then I checked Biltema and they sell 25 for 80-90 SEK depending on the length.
I thought they were more expensive, so it will probably be those, if 90 long is enough there are M10x90 and then there's less risk of drilling into the reinforcement.
Otherwise, there are M8x75, M8x115 and M12x75, M12x115.
We'll just have to see how deep we lay the reinforcement when we cast, I don't think the diameter of the bolts matters too much, I think M8 is more than enough and 1.2m spacing and a proper washer in between so it holds well. It will be quite heavy anyways, the house won't blow away
Feels like the smoothest & best solution with the expansion bolts anyway, thanks for the help.
Great tip also from mats_o to build on the slab and then raise it, thanks for that!
I think a framework on the long side in my case should weigh about 200 kg quite exactly, so it should be possible to raise if there are a few people. And it should be easier to build on the slab as mentioned.
Feel free to give more tips Best regards, Patrik
I thought they were more expensive, so it will probably be those, if 90 long is enough there are M10x90 and then there's less risk of drilling into the reinforcement.
Otherwise, there are M8x75, M8x115 and M12x75, M12x115.
We'll just have to see how deep we lay the reinforcement when we cast, I don't think the diameter of the bolts matters too much, I think M8 is more than enough and 1.2m spacing and a proper washer in between so it holds well. It will be quite heavy anyways, the house won't blow away
Feels like the smoothest & best solution with the expansion bolts anyway, thanks for the help.
Great tip also from mats_o to build on the slab and then raise it, thanks for that!
I think a framework on the long side in my case should weigh about 200 kg quite exactly, so it should be possible to raise if there are a few people. And it should be easier to build on the slab as mentioned.
Feel free to give more tips
Best regards, Patrik
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yes, it can sometimes be good to nail the frame on the ground... BUT..... It's easy for it to become skewed, like everything twists and doesn't keep the measurements....
This primarily has to do with the moisture content of the lumber and also how careful you are with the measurements...
but do as you wish...
This primarily has to do with the moisture content of the lumber and also how careful you are with the measurements...
but do as you wish...
Above all, it essentially assumes that it is straight and smooth on the foundation. Adjusting for sloping foundations or dips and peaks on the same would probably turn you gray-haired if you don't "build on site."Milkshaken said:
M8 is more than enough, an M8 expansion bolt can hold far more than a ton if the concrete is OK and it's not placed too close to the concrete edge. But as you say, don't forget large and thick square washers on top of the sill. Also, don't forget moisture protection under the sill.patriklarsson said:We'll see how deep the reinforcement is placed when we cast, I don't think the diameter of the bolts matters much, I think M8 is more than enough, with a 1.2m spacing and a proper washer between them to hold it down nicely. It will be quite heavy, the house won't blow away anyway
It's probably wiser to use smaller dim on the expansion bolt and tighter spacing than the other way around. But it might not matter that much. I can see a small risk that with cc120 there could be a gap between the slab and sill where the wind can get in and blow cold air in during the winter.
NB, I might be exaggerating the danger ...
Self-builder
· Östergötland
· 1 837 posts
Hi, the issue with the gap shouldn't be a problem since I'll be installing a wooden support outside 1-2 cm from the slab, to which the outer panel will be attached, preventing anything from blowing in there.
Even if you're allowed to use CC60, it won't be too expensive. Where can you rent a good concrete drill cheaply? At hardware stores?
I saw there are also M6x95mm, they seem perfect. That would penetrate 45-50mm into the slab, and you can place them closer together instead... I'll probably go with that! It should be easier to drill smaller holes too. I'll probably install about 50 around, roughly CC 80 or a little less.
I hope the slab is straight enough so that I can attach the plank without it warping; it shouldn't be impossible. I'll test placing some wooden supports on regular asphalt to see how much they warp. It's just important to get straight wooden supports for the base frame. I'll probably also use treated wood.
Best regards
Even if you're allowed to use CC60, it won't be too expensive. Where can you rent a good concrete drill cheaply? At hardware stores?
I saw there are also M6x95mm, they seem perfect. That would penetrate 45-50mm into the slab, and you can place them closer together instead... I'll probably go with that! It should be easier to drill smaller holes too. I'll probably install about 50 around, roughly CC 80 or a little less.
I hope the slab is straight enough so that I can attach the plank without it warping; it shouldn't be impossible. I'll test placing some wooden supports on regular asphalt to see how much they warp. It's just important to get straight wooden supports for the base frame. I'll probably also use treated wood.
Best regards