Elevator noise and other disturbances from the ceiling (live on the top floor)

[norrbottenssnickaren]

I have 12 years of experience as a professional acoustician and have conducted control measurements on at least 100 elevators. What professional experience do you have that gives you the mandate to reject my suggestions?

it's me who has to explain to the customer that what the "acoustician" has dreamed up, I cannot fix.

 

[nomoD2]

it's me who must explain to the customer that what the "acoustician" has dreamed up, I cannot fix.

it's me who must explain to the customer that what the "acoustician" has dreamed up, I cannot fix.

By "acoustician" do you mean me or the profession of acousticians?

Just as we "acousticians" don't believe you "carpenters" dream up how you build a house or solve the difficulties within your area of expertise, we "acousticians" don't "dream" when we develop proposals for solving noise and vibration problems that actually address the root issues after our involvement.

The proposals we deliver to our customers are supported by advanced building acoustics calculations and extensive experience from field measurements of noise levels and vibrations from the installation the investigation concerns.

Given your unfortunate attitude towards "acousticians," I assume you feel you've been held accountable for a proposal from an "acoustician" that didn't significantly improve the sound environment in a space treated according to the "acoustician's" recommendations?

The problem is rather that the general public has little understanding of what an "acoustician" actually contributes to a project.

All professions with their respective expertise must (to their respective clients) stand by the solutions they propose and argue why their solution should be implemented.

Most professionals working as "acoustic consultants" have a solid university education equivalent to a Master of Science in Engineering.

I have great respect for the various professions I collaborate with on the assignments I perform. In order to collectively arrive at the best possible solution for the client and for those living in a noise-disturbed building, all professions must listen to the involved parties' competencies and experiences without prestige and weigh that in when choosing the final solution to a problem.

My experience is that good collaboration usually generates the best solutions.

How can you even assess whether a solution presented by an "acoustician" is viable?

To "guy-Google" around a subject can be fun but unfortunately, many listen to "guy-Googlers" and undertake actions that in some instances may worsen a noise and vibration problem.

Since you have the courage to criticize an "acoustician," perhaps it's appropriate for you to share your professional competence that gives you the right to discredit a profession.

 

[nomoD2]

it is me who has to explain to the customer that what the “acoustic engineer” has dreamed up I cannot fix.

Several professional "acoustic engineers" have many years of work experience from working as carpenters before further educating themselves to become "acoustic engineers". This work experience is worth its weight in gold both for us other acoustic engineers as well as for our customers, as it provides a better understanding of both professional groups' needs and competencies.

 

[norrbottenssnickaren]

Since you obviously have zero insight into how an elevator works and furthermore see no problem with performing actions that the elevator is not approved for, well, what can I say. I'll leave you to your fate but for heaven's sake don't go around giving advice when you have no insight into the elevator's construction and what actions can reasonably be carried out.

 

[nomoD2]

Since you obviously have zero insight into how an elevator works and furthermore see no problem with performing actions that the elevator is not approved for, well....... what can I say. I leave you to your fate but for God's sake don't walk around giving advice when you have no insight into the elevator's construction and what actions are reasonably possible to carry out.

Are you an elevator expert now too?

Just as quickly as you dismiss other professional groups' competence and experience, it should be equally simple for you to tell us all what professional competence you possess. But it is evidently a difficult task.

For those elevators that have the possibility to be operated from the roof of the cab, it may be wise to ride the elevator and operate it from there.

Through such a procedure, you can, together with the elevator technician, operate the elevator and listen together for where the noise is originating from.

 

[nomoD2]

Since you obviously have zero insight into how an elevator works and also don't see any problems with performing actions that the elevator is not approved for, so....... yeah, what can I say. I'll leave you to your fate but for God's sake, don't go around giving advice when you don't have insight into the elevator's construction and what actions can reasonably be performed.

What documented experiences do you have yourself regarding how an elevator should be installed and addressed if noise and vibration problems occur?

 

[norrbottenssnickaren]

Are you an elevator expert now too?

As quickly as you discredit other professional groups' competence and experience, it should be just as easy for you to tell us all about your own professional competence. But it is evidently a difficult task.

For elevators that can be controlled from the top of the elevator car, it might be wise to ride the elevator and control it from there.

Through such a procedure, you can work together with the elevator technician to run the elevator and listen together for where the abnormal noises are coming from.

again wrong. And I work with elevators, by the way.

You can't do service runs at high speed. Most abnormal noises you won't detect when running on the roof with very few exceptions.

And the only thing I object to is you. You clearly don't have the knowledge to sit here and give advice about elevators to the thread creator. You should have a technician by your side who can explain to you what is possible and not possible to carry out... which I suspect is exactly how it usually goes. You alone don't have the knowledge.

so stop trolling now.

 

[nomoD2]

again wrong. And I work with elevators, by the way.

You can't do service runs at high speed. Most noises you won't notice when you're running on the roof with very few exceptions.

And the only thing I oppose is you. You obviously don't have the knowledge to sit here and give advice about elevators to the thread creator. You should hold a technician's hand who can explain to you what is possible and not possible to do... which I suspect is exactly how it usually goes. You alone don't have the knowledge.

so stop trolling now.

I am aware that I don't have the knowledge alone.

Why didn't you say early in the thread what your professional competence is?

 

[nomoD2]

again wrong. And by the way, I work with elevators.

service runs can’t be done at high speed. Most noises won't be discovered when you're running on the roof with very few exceptions.

And the only thing I object to is you. You clearly don’t have the knowledge to sit here and give advice about elevators to the thread creator. You should hold a technician’s hand who can explain to you what is possible and not possible to do... which I suspect is exactly how it usually goes. You alone don’t have the knowledge.

so stop trolling now.

I'm not trolling.

I am aware that only certain issues are revealed when running at low speed.

Troubleshooting is, of course, performed in close collaboration with the elevator technician.

I have never claimed that I have the knowledge alone. I am happy to learn from your experiences.

Just like the other participants in this thread, I contribute with the experiences I have of control measurements and troubleshooting of noise and vibration problems from elevators.

 

[Linkan1]

You are probably right in what you say. I know that acousticians, construction companies, a representative from Schindler, and someone else will have a meeting next week about what they can do. Lowering the speed seems to be considered a permanent solution even though they should address the noise instead.

From what I understand, there is another apartment where there were complaints about the elevator noise. This one was also on the top floor. They adjusted the elevator until it met the requirements and then closed the case. I don't know how it sounds now other than that the person accepted the test and seems to have stopped complaining. It is clear, however, that it sounds unusually loud in my apartment.

I have a similar problem with an apartment at the top, did you find a solution to the problem?

 

[Norrtull]

Jisses what a thread about elevators and sound.
We have an old Graham Brothers elevator from 1924 (I think it was, or 1934), it rattles and vibrates like a steam locomotive. The entire drive is located 2 meters from the front door. The point is that when the contactors engage, we hear a click, and when the motor starts or stops, we hear the machine. However, as a comparison, in the summer the cabinet with the contactors is open due to heat, when that door closes (metal cabinet from the 198x model) we only hear the elevator machine. So it's a fine line between what can help or perhaps I should call it alleviate the sound. It's long been a part of the soundscape at home, like people slamming their doors or shouting on the street. If you want to live quietly, a hut in the forest is what's needed. In the city, it's anything but quiet, it doesn't matter if it's the capital or any small town.

 

[JohanLun]

I have lived in an apartment where every morning some woman in sharp heels managed to put on a real riverdance sound performance. Also lived in an apartment at the top where an elevator made noise quite regularly. I got used to both places after a few weeks. It's worse if you stay at a hotel and end up in such a room. Then I normally find it harder to sleep, often tired due to the journey and since you usually only stay one or two nights...

 

[markaner]

I have a similar problem with an apartment at the top, did you get a solution to the problem?

Well, it's just below what's acceptable, they say. I'm still bothered by the noise though. Especially when the brake hits, it sounds loud.

 

[Stenkant]

One should not have to accept these noises from a modern elevator with pulse-controlled machinery. You should bring this up with the housing association, which in turn should discuss it with the construction company. Have they installed an old piece of machinery, or is it some östatatsbygge?

 

[hempularen]

Doesn't have to be Eastern Bloc construction. Could also be some modern Italian junk.