Hello, I have some thoughts about a vacation home I'm interested in. There are multiple buildings on the property, including the main building with a construction area of about 25 sqm including the porch, and a somewhat newer shed with a construction area of about 20 sqm including the porch.
They are about 3 meters apart.
The thoughts are as follows:
Phase 1
Convert the shed so that it can be slept in, enclose the porch, insulate, and create 2 bedrooms inside. It has sturdy studs and rafters, so I was wondering if it's possible to build from the inside with a wind barrier, insulation, moisture barrier, insulation, then a surface layer. Is that possible? Or do you have to remove the panel to get the wind barrier in place? Are there other things one should consider?
Phase 2
Make an extension of about 3x3 meters between the buildings, which will become a kitchen, open doorways to both buildings.
Phase 3
Renovate the main building to become a living/dining area.
I am calculating it and how much time it may take, mostly wondering if it is possible to insulate the shed from the inside right now. What do you think?
They are about 3 meters apart.
The thoughts are as follows:
Phase 1
Convert the shed so that it can be slept in, enclose the porch, insulate, and create 2 bedrooms inside. It has sturdy studs and rafters, so I was wondering if it's possible to build from the inside with a wind barrier, insulation, moisture barrier, insulation, then a surface layer. Is that possible? Or do you have to remove the panel to get the wind barrier in place? Are there other things one should consider?
Phase 2
Make an extension of about 3x3 meters between the buildings, which will become a kitchen, open doorways to both buildings.
Phase 3
Renovate the main building to become a living/dining area.
I am calculating it and how much time it may take, mostly wondering if it is possible to insulate the shed from the inside right now. What do you think?
Self-builder
· Stockholm
· 8 605 posts
Rebuilding from the inside is mostly about access - if you can see the panel "from the inside," you can add some framing (about 22 mm), put up a wind barrier, insulation, possibly plastic (or not, depending on how you plan with the cold setting, etc.), and panel (surface layer).
The framing for ventilation might not be necessary if it's already an interior without air circulation...
The type of insulation (like cellulose) and whether to use plastic (none with cellulose) are things to consider. If the house is ever to be cold-set, it's probably better without plastic. If there's high moisture load (lots of people, cooking, bathrooms, etc.) and it's a permanent residence, plastic is good. It also depends on how the rest of the house(s) are made...
If it's not a living space today, building permits might be needed...
Otherwise, it's worth considering whether you want integrated electricity at the same time...
/K
The framing for ventilation might not be necessary if it's already an interior without air circulation...
The type of insulation (like cellulose) and whether to use plastic (none with cellulose) are things to consider. If the house is ever to be cold-set, it's probably better without plastic. If there's high moisture load (lots of people, cooking, bathrooms, etc.) and it's a permanent residence, plastic is good. It also depends on how the rest of the house(s) are made...
If it's not a living space today, building permits might be needed...
Otherwise, it's worth considering whether you want integrated electricity at the same time...
/K
No electricity available, planning to install solar panels
Maybe prepare for electricity or run 12/24 in the wall or a converter 12/230vac
Will be unheated but used in the winter occasionally.
Planning to use bison wind barrier and vapor barrier not plastic.
And regular glass wool insulation
If placing the wind barrier from the inside, you'll have to round the studs and they'll be outside the wind barrier; the only risk is condensation forming between the panel and the wind barrier
Might not be a big problem.
Need a building permit for the extension so it can be included in the same.
Maybe prepare for electricity or run 12/24 in the wall or a converter 12/230vac
Will be unheated but used in the winter occasionally.
Planning to use bison wind barrier and vapor barrier not plastic.
And regular glass wool insulation
If placing the wind barrier from the inside, you'll have to round the studs and they'll be outside the wind barrier; the only risk is condensation forming between the panel and the wind barrier
Might not be a big problem.
Need a building permit for the extension so it can be included in the same.
Regarding cellulose insulation,
there will be insulation on 2 or 3 occasions, and it's not large areas,
is there any system to do the job yourself?
I can imagine that costs will escalate when first insulating 20sqm of wall/ceiling/floor.
Then 10sqm the same thing, and the last space I'm not sure how it is today if it needs to be completely redone or can be maintained.
Also, there is no 400VAC which I suspect is needed to blow, can probably be solved with a generator.
there will be insulation on 2 or 3 occasions, and it's not large areas,
is there any system to do the job yourself?
I can imagine that costs will escalate when first insulating 20sqm of wall/ceiling/floor.
Then 10sqm the same thing, and the last space I'm not sure how it is today if it needs to be completely redone or can be maintained.
Also, there is no 400VAC which I suspect is needed to blow, can probably be solved with a generator.
Self-builder
· Stockholm
· 8 605 posts
There are cellulose panels too...loose fill might be complicated?ason said:
(Isolina for example or isocell)
/K
I've looked around a bit now, Huton flex costs about 200% more than regular fiberglass. Isolina seems to be even more expensive, from what I've seen cellulose insulation has approximately the same lambda value but with high density.
The first thought was to use 95+45 fiberglass (Isover).
Can you reduce the thickness if using cellulose insulation? Do you need the same type of wind and vapor barrier?
The first thought was to use 95+45 fiberglass (Isover).
Can you reduce the thickness if using cellulose insulation? Do you need the same type of wind and vapor barrier?
Self-builder
· Stockholm
· 8 605 posts
Yes, it is more expensive, so it depends a bit on how large the area is, whether it will be a lot of money or not...
Fiberglass or cellulose, I believe, have the same insulation value (roughly) so it would be the same thickness. Wind paper is needed but you use a different vapor barrier (i.e., a vapor barrier not a seal in the form of regular plastic) :9
/K
Fiberglass or cellulose, I believe, have the same insulation value (roughly) so it would be the same thickness. Wind paper is needed but you use a different vapor barrier (i.e., a vapor barrier not a seal in the form of regular plastic) :9
/K
Smooth continuation with the plan, Leaning towards huton flex or feelingwood 95 insulation, 95 in the wall and double in the ceiling. I'm a bit hesitant about the floor, went and checked, it’s 95 joists in the floor, not sure if it’s enough to put 95, Then the cost of truss bottom board is about 100 SEK/sqm so was thinking if it works well with S80 foam plastic, screw it from below, Get an inorganic material downwards so no risk of mold attack, so I get more insulation for the same money. then a 95 insulation on top of that, I think mice and rats won’t get through, but don't get a good answer about that. Looking for fine mesh to put in the truss bottom if foam plastic isn't enough to stop, but can't find anything good, max 7 mm mesh it should be. Have spoken to several sellers of cellulose insulation, and regarding truss bottom you get different answers, nothing definitive. one used windproof fabric underneath to stop mold, moisture. another said asfabord, another a truss bottom board.. then regarding foam plastic, some thought it works, others that they eat it up, some that it gets too tight. Then there was the matter of the air gap between the outer panel and the insulation, mixed answers there too, one said it's not needed, another - can be for extra security, and another - yes it should be.. Same with which vapor barrier, one said you should take the provider's vapor barrier, but the wind protection works with anything, another said to take wind paper, inward it’s enough with panels or boards. Feels like this is going with gut feeling and keeping fingers crossed. How have you built with cellulose insulation? Which vapor barrier, wind fabric, truss bottom etc...
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Self-builder
· Stockholm
· 8 605 posts
I have not constructed any trossbotten with cellulose (only in the countryside with regular fiberglass),
But in the ceiling, I have used (from outside to inside): Outer roof, roofing felt, tongue and groove, air gap, wind barrier (regular), cellulose boards (isolina), vapor barrier (isolina), panel
/K
But in the ceiling, I have used (from outside to inside): Outer roof, roofing felt, tongue and groove, air gap, wind barrier (regular), cellulose boards (isolina), vapor barrier (isolina), panel
/K
Thanks, went to the hardware store (XL) and talked a bit about paneling and prices, asked them about insulation 
they don't have cellulose-based, but said standard fiberglass works well, use wind protection Halotex W5 and skip the vapor barrier, that's how it used to be done, he said. Hmm.. thought for a while, seemed like it would save a lot of money, but thought a bit more, it would be a shame to risk a construction to save a little, I've also read that, for example, Hunton Flex has 10 times the capacity to transport moisture compared to fiberglass.
Considering skipping foam plastic in the joist bottom as well and using some joist bottom board, what is recommended, a 4.5 mm inorganic fiber cement joist base board, 6mm oil-hardened board, or something else?
Klaskarlsson: why have you used Isolina in the ceiling but not in other places? And what made you choose Isolina?
they don't have cellulose-based, but said standard fiberglass works well, use wind protection Halotex W5 and skip the vapor barrier, that's how it used to be done, he said. Hmm.. thought for a while, seemed like it would save a lot of money, but thought a bit more, it would be a shame to risk a construction to save a little, I've also read that, for example, Hunton Flex has 10 times the capacity to transport moisture compared to fiberglass.Considering skipping foam plastic in the joist bottom as well and using some joist bottom board, what is recommended, a 4.5 mm inorganic fiber cement joist base board, 6mm oil-hardened board, or something else?
Klaskarlsson: why have you used Isolina in the ceiling but not in other places? And what made you choose Isolina?