Going to build a double gate and was thinking of having some form of sheet material on both sides + paneling on the outside. I've looked at plywood and board, and plywood is 4 times more expensive, but is it 4 times better than hardboard? I don't want a thicker sheet than 5mm on each side of the gate, both because of the weight and thickness.
Member
· Västerbottens län
· 18 057 posts
Board on BOTH sides of the frame and fill the frame with styrofoam glued to the board (many planks and clamps), then you can nail paneling on the outside.
Board is better than plywood for a door. If you take oil-hardened, it withstands moisture better.
Protte
Board is better than plywood for a door. If you take oil-hardened, it withstands moisture better.
Protte
Then maybe I can also jump in and ride along on this thread a bit? I too am considering building swing doors for the garage. From the inside, I had thought of:
1 - Board
2 - Frame of studs with foam insulation
3 - Metal sheet
4 - Grooved plywood board
Approximate measurements: 200 x 120 cm
Is a thickness of 4-5 mm sufficient? I'm thinking about the risk of the door bowing in the middle. But this might not be a problem if you glue the foam on both sides. I considered 12mm k-plyfa, but that might be unnecessary. Just like TS, I would like to keep the weight down. I hadn't planned on having any cross braces, either horizontally or diagonally, if it can be avoided.
The frame I had planned to make from laminated studs, 45x95, which I then plane down to 40x80 or so. I thought they would need to be planed after gluing to make them perfectly straight. Is this dimension also excessive?
The metal sheet - well, isn't there usually one in exterior doors, and I thought it would be good for stiffness. But maybe that's unnecessary too? Board on both sides seems both simpler and probably cheaper. This should also serve as a "giant nail plate."
vagabondo - what size is your door(s)?
When it comes to the frame, I was considering making it "double" so I can fit in 80 mm (2x40 mm) foam that I overlap. The grooved plywood I mostly thought of as a simple way to achieve a decent-looking exterior.
1 - Board
2 - Frame of studs with foam insulation
3 - Metal sheet
4 - Grooved plywood board
Approximate measurements: 200 x 120 cm
Is a thickness of 4-5 mm sufficient? I'm thinking about the risk of the door bowing in the middle. But this might not be a problem if you glue the foam on both sides. I considered 12mm k-plyfa, but that might be unnecessary. Just like TS, I would like to keep the weight down. I hadn't planned on having any cross braces, either horizontally or diagonally, if it can be avoided.
The frame I had planned to make from laminated studs, 45x95, which I then plane down to 40x80 or so. I thought they would need to be planed after gluing to make them perfectly straight. Is this dimension also excessive?
The metal sheet - well, isn't there usually one in exterior doors, and I thought it would be good for stiffness. But maybe that's unnecessary too? Board on both sides seems both simpler and probably cheaper. This should also serve as a "giant nail plate."
vagabondo - what size is your door(s)?
When it comes to the frame, I was considering making it "double" so I can fit in 80 mm (2x40 mm) foam that I overlap. The grooved plywood I mostly thought of as a simple way to achieve a decent-looking exterior.
Hey!
The size of the door leaves will be 204cmx120cm and I've also built the frame from 45x95 (glued). I will have a long glass pane in the middle of each leaf, so I'll probably need some studs to nail/glue on, and I'm considering using regular insulation instead of styrofoam, but I might be wrong.
Plastic or not - seems a bit overkill for a garage door, I think. On the other hand, it might get humid if you drive the car in during wintertime and it's a heated garage. If you place the plastic under the board, how would you glue it to the frame?
Maybe I should call Edsbyn anyway..
The size of the door leaves will be 204cmx120cm and I've also built the frame from 45x95 (glued). I will have a long glass pane in the middle of each leaf, so I'll probably need some studs to nail/glue on, and I'm considering using regular insulation instead of styrofoam, but I might be wrong.
Plastic or not - seems a bit overkill for a garage door, I think. On the other hand, it might get humid if you drive the car in during wintertime and it's a heated garage. If you place the plastic under the board, how would you glue it to the frame?
Maybe I should call Edsbyn anyway..
Member
· Västerbottens län
· 18 057 posts
That construction risks warping, becoming crooked as it is not symmetrical.jac said:
Protte
Member
· Västerbottens län
· 18 057 posts
If you don't glue the board to something (Styrofoam), it will bubble. You can place studs closely, but then there will be thermal bridges.vagabondo said:
The Styrofoam has more functions than just good insulation.
Board + Styrofoam becomes fairly diffusion-tight.
Protte
Yes, that might have been the simplest solution, and the door would also be installed within a reasonable time.vagabondo said:Hey there!
The size of the door panels will be 204cmx120cm, and I have also built the frame using 45x95 (laminated). I will have an elongated glass pane in the middle of each panel, so I will likely need some studs to nail/glue, and have therefore thought of using regular insulation instead of styrofoam, but maybe I'm wrong?
Plastic or not - seems a bit overkill for a garage door, I think. But then again, it will likely get humid if you drive a car in during winter, and it's a heated garage. If you place the plastic under the board, how should you then glue it to the frame?
One might want to call Edsbyn anyway..
But it's not as FUN, and I have justified the purchase of a table saw with the money I'm saving(?). It's definitely necessary for ripping the studs that will be laminated for the frame.
The plastic will be clamped between the frame and the board, so it should be enough to staple or tape it in place while the board is being attached. Then you can cut away the excess that sticks out.
But if I understand Prototyp right, a moisture barrier would be overkill or even completely unnecessary if using board + foam. But even a door can get mold inside just like a wall, right?
Hmm... thanks for pointing that out. I didn't think it was that sensitive, but it's good that I avoided discovering that myself in a year or so.prototypen said:
So, I should have the same material on both sides of the frame. How do you handle the grooved plywood then? Panels should have the same effect, they probably move even more than plywood, which should be quite form-stable. I intended to have the inside completely smooth. Maybe grooved plywood there too with the "backside" outward? But that seems a bit unnecessary.
Board seems better than the 12mm plywood I initially thought of regarding the weight. The board should be significantly lighter, right? Is the metal sheet completely unnecessary?
Hey!
I will probably use board on both sides with foam in between - much lighter compared to plywood.
But where can you buy thinner panels than the usual 17mm available in stores? On doors for purchase, there are much thinner panels, seems to be around 10mm.
I will probably use board on both sides with foam in between - much lighter compared to plywood.
But where can you buy thinner panels than the usual 17mm available in stores? On doors for purchase, there are much thinner panels, seems to be around 10mm.
Couldn't one just... (now I'm just thinking out loud and a bit spontaneously)... cut strips of about 10mm plywood. Then you either glue or nail these "ribs" onto the board? It should look like grooved plywood but with less weight. I was thinking of painting the outside white so it shouldn't make a difference. You can also round off the edges of the "ribs" with a router to make it a bit softer.
Will there be problems with the door warping with this on the outside if there's nothing corresponding on the inside, I wonder?
I might need to take a trip to the lumber yard; I've never looked closely at what types of board are available.
Is it something like masonite that's meant, or some other variant? (e.g.: http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/Prod/PID-1001.aspx)
Maybe it should be a bit thicker... or not?
Will there be problems with the door warping with this on the outside if there's nothing corresponding on the inside, I wonder?
I might need to take a trip to the lumber yard; I've never looked closely at what types of board are available.
Is it something like masonite that's meant, or some other variant? (e.g.: http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/Prod/PID-1001.aspx)
Maybe it should be a bit thicker... or not?
Member
· Västerbottens län
· 18 057 posts
The company Masonite manufactures board; nowadays, there are several manufacturers of board.
If you nail the panel on the outside, it doesn't hold any stronger than the nail bending instead of pulling the door leaf crooked.
If you're going to apply strips, don't glue, just shoot.
Protte
If you nail the panel on the outside, it doesn't hold any stronger than the nail bending instead of pulling the door leaf crooked.
If you're going to apply strips, don't glue, just shoot.
Protte
I know that Masonite is actually a company name, a bit of a misconception there. For me, masonite is the classic thin board that was originally manufactured by the Masonite company. I've now read up a bit more and understand that it should work with that. Initially, I thought you meant something else since I thought this was just something used on interior walls "back in the day." I've never liked it, but I don't really know why. In the right place, it might not be so bad.
From what I understand, the best option is oil-tempered board (aka oil-tempered masonite), which is usually 3.2 mm thick. This also seems to be used on wooden boats and apparently can be painted and varnished just fine, so no issues there. (The name oil-tempered suggested to me that it might be so repellent that it would be difficult to paint.)
I haven't looked for suitable paneling (instead of grooved plywood) yet. There are different variants primarily intended as wainscoting indoors. Such should be quite thin, but maybe that’s the one that is 17mm? I'm planning to head over to Beijer during lunch to check out what they have.
From what I understand, the best option is oil-tempered board (aka oil-tempered masonite), which is usually 3.2 mm thick. This also seems to be used on wooden boats and apparently can be painted and varnished just fine, so no issues there. (The name oil-tempered suggested to me that it might be so repellent that it would be difficult to paint.)
I haven't looked for suitable paneling (instead of grooved plywood) yet. There are different variants primarily intended as wainscoting indoors. Such should be quite thin, but maybe that’s the one that is 17mm? I'm planning to head over to Beijer during lunch to check out what they have.
As I thought, there seems to be some 12 mm thick, mainly intended for sauna and paneling but it probably doesn't matter what the manufacturer intended in this case. Most of it seems to be spruce or pine anyway. Here are some places:vagabondo said:
http://www.beijerbygg.se/templates/BB_ProduktListing.aspx?id=56180
http://www.byggmax.com/se-sv/Prod/Tra/Inomhuspanel/Default.aspx
But most retailers probably have something similar. (You should probably avoid the finished MDF panel
)