If it's important for the meeting between the glasses in the corner to be narrow, you can place a beam over the short section and use it as a "transfer beam" to reach the pillar in the outer corner. Since the load effects on this beam are small, it might even be sufficient with construction timber. Then you place the other three pillars in the same line and the main beam on top of these.A attefall said:
It could be a more aesthetically pleasing solution if the corner columns are also set back a bit from the facade. From the inside, the actual corner is less obstructed. From the outside, it creates the impression that the balcony is floating. In such a prominent extension, the design, especially the details, is very important. The difference between elegance and clumsiness might be small from a technical standpoint but significant visually.
Hello again,
I have now received construction drawings delivered. It became an HEB240 resting on two HEA120 columns in the corners.
What do you think about this construction? I'm wondering if we could reduce the thickness a bit (and get 240 in ceiling height) if we also choose steel for the beams. What could correspond to 56x225, IPE120?
I have now received construction drawings delivered. It became an HEB240 resting on two HEA120 columns in the corners.
What do you think about this construction? I'm wondering if we could reduce the thickness a bit (and get 240 in ceiling height) if we also choose steel for the beams. What could correspond to 56x225, IPE120?
I see that there are no recessed steel columns? The dimensions are very large and the spans are long in all directions. My immediate feeling is that this solution isn't quite ideal. Wobbly floor slabs and the risk of binding glass partitions. I'm also wondering how the extension is stabilized, a question you should discuss with the structural engineer. Additionally, there is a lack of reinforcement drawings, especially important since the columns are so far out in the corners. How is the roof slope? With the current roof structure, it would be appropriate to switch to steel beams, possibly replacing most of it with inorganic material. As it is now, wood is being built into a very moisture-proof construction.
No, it didn't happen... We went from having two columns with a steel beam, to it not being possible to have that span, to two extra recessed columns with a steel beam, to it not being possible to have recessed columns and now back to this.B bossespecial said:
Many of your questions are things I'm also pondering, but I'm doubtful that my engineer can answer them. To put it mildly, the collaboration with the engineer hasn't really worked, and I'm now considering how I should proceed with this.
That's unfortunate to hear. I understand that questions arise, and I assume our input also contributes to uncertaintiesA attefall said:
Is it a fixed price you've agreed on? If so, maybe this also contributes to the collaboration being a bit rocky? What have you agreed upon regarding scope? There's much to be desired from the drawing material; a lot looks almost pasted into the pdf. Minor errors, for example, there are different dimensions for the beam in the house gable on different drawings, vapor barrier in the wall but not in the roof, roof slope is missing. If you pull the beam inside the glass partitions, you'll eliminate the huge thermal bridge that exists today, which is also a moisture risk as there's a risk of condensation. He must be able to explain the stability somehow; otherwise, he does not meet EKS.
How to proceed depends on what has been agreed upon. Regardless of what has been agreed upon, I do think the product should at least meet the standards. Have you received any structural documentation?
richardtenggren
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richardtenggren
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You can compare the moments of inertia between the different beams, note that the E-moduli differ significantly for the different materials.
It is a fixed-price contract, so yeah, it probably has a lot to do with it. Had my concerns before, but still thought some form of dialogue would work. Additionally, the engineer was supposed to be able to come in already in the planning phase and not after the architectural drawings are made. I will take a closer look at the contract, but it mostly seems to aim for approval from the municipality and revisions to achieve that.B bossespecial said:It was sad to hear. I understand that it raises questions, our input I guess also contributes to question marks I suppose
Is it a fixed-price contract you have agreed on, if so maybe this also contributes to the cooperation being a bit shaky? What have you agreed on regarding the scope? There is much to be desired in the drawing documentation, a lot looks almost pasted in the PDF. Some small errors, for example, there are different dimensions on the beam in the house gable on different drawings, vapor barrier in the wall but not in the roof, roof slope is missing. If you move the beam inside the glass sections, you get rid of the enormous thermal bridge that exists today, which is also a moisture risk since there is a risk of condensation. The stability must be able to be explained in some way otherwise he does not meet EKS.
How to proceed depends on what is agreed. Regardless of what has been agreed, I believe the product should at least meet the standard. Have you received any construction documentation?
I will consider your points and request this information. The construction documentation is supposed to be ready next week, as stated.
richardtenggren
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· Norrlandet
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richardtenggren
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I think I've helped someone here before with a similar case, I'll check if I find a previous post. @bossespecial I recall seeing doing similar examples here tooA attefall said:Ok, will try to get into it a bit. I'm generally good at math, but it's been a long time since I "studied." An example equation would be great, then I can experiment with the different variables
Glued timber 56x225 is equivalent in terms of stiffness to IPE 120 and HEA 100.
I don't think the construction is OK for several reasons: 1) Even an HEB beam gives too much deflection in this case (about 30 mm), which is too much in conjunction with sliding windows. 2) Steel beam and columns in the façade cause unnecessary problems with thermal bridges and material movement. 3) The construction of the balcony floor with roofing felt as a waterproof layer, lack of slope, 45x45 mm studs across what should be the floor's slope, and lack of a vapor barrier (which exists in the walls). This is not a professional effort.
The plan dimensions give too large spans with conventional solutions. It is a challenge to keep a balcony floor of this size watertight over time. Inorganic materials in walls and floors, I believe, are a safer solution.
I don't think the construction is OK for several reasons: 1) Even an HEB beam gives too much deflection in this case (about 30 mm), which is too much in conjunction with sliding windows. 2) Steel beam and columns in the façade cause unnecessary problems with thermal bridges and material movement. 3) The construction of the balcony floor with roofing felt as a waterproof layer, lack of slope, 45x45 mm studs across what should be the floor's slope, and lack of a vapor barrier (which exists in the walls). This is not a professional effort.
The plan dimensions give too large spans with conventional solutions. It is a challenge to keep a balcony floor of this size watertight over time. Inorganic materials in walls and floors, I believe, are a safer solution.
J justusandersson said:
Thanks for all the very good remarks. I'll take them with me.J justusandersson said:
There are many points to change and I understand it will be difficult to address everything concretely, but I'm curious, do you have an example of what wall and roof constructions completely without organic materials usually look like? What do you use instead of underlagsspont?
Inorganic wall constructions are, for example, masonry with leca (isoblock) or hollow brick. There is German hollow brick that is superb. The balcony floor can preferably be a concrete construction of some form. Lightweight aggregate concrete or lightweight concrete. If you build a wooden joist floor, the underlay should be ventilated on the underside. Also, it does not fit well with poor slope.