Good evening to you all!
I've been "sneak reading" a lot here on byggahus, there's a lot of knowledge to gain here!
My girlfriend and I, both just 23 years old, will probably soon be able to buy a townhouse in the Stockholm area (a buyout of inheritance). The house is 150 sqm over 3 floors, so the planning is completely messed up, 3 studios stacked on each other. Today we're living expensively at 11k/month @76 sqm... We want to lower the monthly cost a bit.
The townhouse will be bought as-is - model 1963. It needs TOTAL renovation, absolutely everything is original. We have set a budget for the renovation at 500k at the most, is that far too little? A lot of materials will be purchased at wholesale prices, and what goes through other channels is planned to be "cheap but good", so no expensive material choices. All work is planned to be done ourselves, so no labor cost will be added (that's the plan). I'm an electrician and renovate apartments/houses daily and am familiar with most tasks. For tasks I'm unsure about, I have competent people in my immediate vicinity to ask/help.
Question 1: The house is full of asbestos. Eternit on the exterior, eternit channels, black adhesive under every carpet, asbestos bends on the insulation, etc. The budget doesn't allow for direct remediation, and I don't want to risk increasing the asbestos levels in the air too much. How is it to renovate on top of the old layers? It's planned to have click flooring in most places, tiles in the bathroom. I know some people do it this way to avoid tearing into the asbestos... But is it an OK way? For example, to float directly on the carpet in the bathroom?
Question 2: If one were to sell in a few years, what would hidden defects say if there were asbestos under the "new fine layer?"
Question 3: The pipes have never been replaced, and really need to be. Since I don't want to open the floors too much, can you just "cut out" and open for the pipes?
That ended up being a lot of text! I hope you get a sense of what I mean, otherwise just tell me to clarify!
Thanks in advance
Best regards, Andreas
I've been "sneak reading" a lot here on byggahus, there's a lot of knowledge to gain here!
My girlfriend and I, both just 23 years old, will probably soon be able to buy a townhouse in the Stockholm area (a buyout of inheritance). The house is 150 sqm over 3 floors, so the planning is completely messed up, 3 studios stacked on each other. Today we're living expensively at 11k/month @76 sqm... We want to lower the monthly cost a bit.
The townhouse will be bought as-is - model 1963. It needs TOTAL renovation, absolutely everything is original. We have set a budget for the renovation at 500k at the most, is that far too little? A lot of materials will be purchased at wholesale prices, and what goes through other channels is planned to be "cheap but good", so no expensive material choices. All work is planned to be done ourselves, so no labor cost will be added (that's the plan). I'm an electrician and renovate apartments/houses daily and am familiar with most tasks. For tasks I'm unsure about, I have competent people in my immediate vicinity to ask/help.
Question 1: The house is full of asbestos. Eternit on the exterior, eternit channels, black adhesive under every carpet, asbestos bends on the insulation, etc. The budget doesn't allow for direct remediation, and I don't want to risk increasing the asbestos levels in the air too much. How is it to renovate on top of the old layers? It's planned to have click flooring in most places, tiles in the bathroom. I know some people do it this way to avoid tearing into the asbestos... But is it an OK way? For example, to float directly on the carpet in the bathroom?
Question 2: If one were to sell in a few years, what would hidden defects say if there were asbestos under the "new fine layer?"
Question 3: The pipes have never been replaced, and really need to be. Since I don't want to open the floors too much, can you just "cut out" and open for the pipes?
That ended up being a lot of text!
I hope you get a sense of what I mean, otherwise just tell me to clarify!Thanks in advance
Best regards, Andreas
1. With great caution, it is usually possible to remove eternit panels and eternit channels without causing dust. Asbestos in pipe elbow insulation is usually left in place as the pipes often do not need to be replaced. I have no opinion on the black glue. Let's see what someone else says.
2. I would be open about it in that case.
3. It is possible, but connecting blocks or screwed helper beams/lists might be needed to patch it together. Then, mains can go in the middle of a beam and need to be "threaded" out. It all depends on how it looks and what you encounter.
2. I would be open about it in that case.
3. It is possible, but connecting blocks or screwed helper beams/lists might be needed to patch it together. Then, mains can go in the middle of a beam and need to be "threaded" out. It all depends on how it looks and what you encounter.
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M MagHam said:
Thanks for the responses!R Robin Wahlman said:
I have been to over 30 house viewings where at least half were earlier than the 80s, and asbestos has never been mentioned or answers given when asked. The most common scenario is perhaps that people just tear everything up without knowing what asbestos is? What the common person seems to know is that it's dangerous, but is it in my house? ''Nah... It's probably only in the factory in Lomma?'' But as you write, honesty is the best policy! But then maybe not a soul will want to buy it when they ''know'' there's asbestos 
Cannot understand how asbestos can become a defect, having asbestos in a house can probably never be a hidden defect. But then, of course, one should not lie about things one absolutely knows, but in many cases, one actually does not know if there is asbestos or not until it is removed.
Not all houses are filled with asbestos just because they were built before the ban.
Not all houses are filled with asbestos just because they were built before the ban.
There might be some truth in what you're sayingRickard.ag said:
Asbestos is in itself a material, not a fault! But could one see it as a 'fault' that there's a previous layer of flooring underneath the new one? And also truth in what you're saying about the year not revealing the presence of asbestos or not! But in this particular case, it has been confirmed with sampling. The in-laws live in the same area, built 6 years later (same house type) and they also had black glue, eternit channels, in fix and grout etc.
And sometimes the material must be sent for analysis to determine if it is asbestos.
Stickan
It will likely be a matter of evidence in court if someone has lied intentionally, a bit beyond my expertise, but as long as you’re honest about not having removed the original carpet if it comes up, it should be fine. (as an example)
The duty to inform only covers that you must answer questions honestly and not that you need to tell everything you know about the house.
Just a tip for the renovation is that it's okay to handle asbestos removal yourself as long as you respect it and aren't foolish, so in some cases, it might be better to do it properly right away.
The duty to inform only covers that you must answer questions honestly and not that you need to tell everything you know about the house.
Just a tip for the renovation is that it's okay to handle asbestos removal yourself as long as you respect it and aren't foolish, so in some cases, it might be better to do it properly right away.
What's the best way to remove the plastic mat? A little flooding to keep it wet and dust-free? If it were wooden flooring, you could even saw out the floor... But since it's concrete, the glue will need to be sanded off. Or is there any other way to remove the glue? Besides the fact that right should be right... And layer upon layer isn't right!
Are there any obvious disadvantages to laying floor on floor, other than the ceiling height becoming a few centimeters lower?
Regarding the eternit channels, there is no danger if it is not supply air. Regarding the carpet and parquet flooring, there is no danger either, as long as you do not drill into the floor, as asbestos can be released. You can buy asbestos warning tape, which you can tape under the parquet flooring. Asbestos was not used as insulation for the pipes; instead, asbestos was mixed into gauze and wrapped around bends to make it look better. If you are going to remediate indoors, keep in mind:
• Seal off the room with plastic
• Use a special air purifier (rent one)
• Mix glue and water and wet down (reduces dust spread)
• Use a type 5 disposable coverall and a P3 half mask
• Never use a regular vacuum cleaner to vacuum asbestos, use one with a HEPA filter.
• Seal off the room with plastic
• Use a special air purifier (rent one)
• Mix glue and water and wet down (reduces dust spread)
• Use a type 5 disposable coverall and a P3 half mask
• Never use a regular vacuum cleaner to vacuum asbestos, use one with a HEPA filter.
Asbestos fibers are present in the adhesive used for floor mats and tiles from around the 1960s.
However, not all adhesive contains asbestos.
To truly know, a sample must be taken and sent for analysis.
Stickan
However, not all adhesive contains asbestos.
To truly know, a sample must be taken and sent for analysis.
Stickan
Best answer
The answers below are in the wrong order. Writing on mobile.
Budget:
For that money, you can go far if you do most of it yourself and choose reasonably priced materials.
What type of floor is it? Wood, concrete? The pipes are cast iron and can be broken if you can't pull them out.S StorBagaren said:
Asbestos is not the problem, however, you cannot ensure that there is no moisture behind the existing surface in the bathroom. As for asbestos under carpets on which you have laid click flooring, it is not a latent defect, it is not even a defect. Asbestos was common in the '60s and you have no obligation to inform about it. If someone asks, you can simply say you don't know, because you don't know, or have you taken samples?S StorBagaren said:
Let the eternit on the facade remain; it harms no one. Let existing eternit channels remain, or do these need to be moved/demolished? Same thing with water pipes in the basement? However, you need to remediate the bathroom if it contains asbestos. You can take samples of the material, make sure to include adhesive and grout from both the floor and wall, 2 samples. Remediate where there is asbestos. The cost is 15-20,000kr before ROT. You can lay click flooring over the existing carpet without any issues. Do not float directly on the bathroom carpet; if you're going to renovate, do it properly, otherwise, you can have problems yourself and also be accountable for latent defects.S StorBagaren said:
Budget:
For that money, you can go far if you do most of it yourself and choose reasonably priced materials.
A radical counter-question...
Do you have to remove (or even cover up) the asbestos cement facade? If it is intact and well-maintained (painted), it doesn't have to be ugly, even though many think so. But I believe the trend is reversing here.
Do you have to remove (or even cover up) the asbestos cement facade? If it is intact and well-maintained (painted), it doesn't have to be ugly, even though many think so. But I believe the trend is reversing here.