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Hello everyone.
I’m working on my bathroom renovation (you can read about it in our project thread).
I’ve been thinking about what would be best.
1. Glue fiber cement board directly to the wall over the tiles and uneven areas, as well as the 1-2cm gap between the ceiling and the wall (re-framed the joists which made it higher).
2. Plaster over all the old tiles, previously plastered walls, and areas with holes where walls used to stand...
Advantages of fiber cement board: quick, easy, and becomes straight.
Advantages of plaster: cheap, and there’s no "gap" where moisture can get between the old wall and board (earthen wall).
Please help me!!!
I’m working on my bathroom renovation (you can read about it in our project thread).
I’ve been thinking about what would be best.
1. Glue fiber cement board directly to the wall over the tiles and uneven areas, as well as the 1-2cm gap between the ceiling and the wall (re-framed the joists which made it higher).
2. Plaster over all the old tiles, previously plastered walls, and areas with holes where walls used to stand...
Advantages of fiber cement board: quick, easy, and becomes straight.
Advantages of plaster: cheap, and there’s no "gap" where moisture can get between the old wall and board (earthen wall).
Please help me!!!
I had a similar situation in my basement; however, the old plaster was already removed. I started plastering, but after 20 cm I gave up... Of all the things I've tried and failed at, plastering is the one I'm furthest from mastering. In my case, most of it ended up on the floor, and what remained wasn't suitable for tiling... I used thin lux-boards instead. Quick, easy, and incredibly much straighter. If you're a bit more skilled with the trowel, it might be cheaper than boards. (I attached mine with wall plugs and tile adhesive) Good luck...
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approximately that's how it has gone for me with plaster 
the technique simply isn't there. however, tested a bit with
repair mortar and it went better as it sticks like crazy (a bit like tile adhesive).
my thought with the minerit is multifix and hang the boards with.
should work ?
/Linus
ps: thanks for your input
the technique simply isn't there. however, tested a bit with
repair mortar and it went better as it sticks like crazy (a bit like tile adhesive).
my thought with the minerit is multifix and hang the boards with.
should work ?
/Linus
ps: thanks for your input
Since you are going to tile in a bathroom with moisture penetration as a consequence, it is not appropriate to take shortcuts at all. And that's what you're thinking of doing. Naughty!
It also depends on what kind of substrate you have, i.e., what the wall is made of.
If it's wood, you shouldn't have plaster at all. Then moisture barriers and boards are required.
If it's stone (concrete, brick, lightweight concrete, lightweight clinker, etc.) plastering is correct. You will also have a wall that to some extent withstands moisture penetration without becoming moldy and rotten. But even here, nowadays, barriers are used against moisture penetration. Assuming a stone wall with plaster, the process is as follows:
You start by removing the existing tiles and cleaning the wall from mortar. There are no shortcuts here. An electric hammer drill with a wide chisel and the drilling disconnected is the best tool.
Next, you repair the surface so that large holes 'disappear'. You may need to plaster the entire surface, and if you don't have the plastering technique 'in hand,' you will need to find a mason who can plaster it for you. It doesn't take long and is therefore not a major expense if you do the manual labor, i.e., mix mortar and clean up afterward. A spill board along the wall is then very helpful.
Then, let the plaster dry for a week (preferably more). Afterward, the surface should be moisture-proofed according to all the rules of the art, i.e., in the way described by the VASKA project and further developed by industries in collaboration with insurance companies. (This also applies if you have wood-/board substrate, otherwise you won't get the insurance coverage in the event of a water damage.)
After that, there is debate on the best way to proceed. The moisture barrier is not the best surface to hang/attach tiles on. Then your 6 mm Minerit board might be relevant. It should preferably not be screwed in place since the screw creates a hole in the moisture barrier around the screw. But it is possible to screw with silicone in the hole to seal it. In that case, use nylon plugs and a long screw with FH. (Pre-drill holes in the Minerit board, otherwise it will crack.)
Next, apply tile adhesive and start at the floor and in a left corner after you have measured the lengths on the surfaces and considered the tile dimensions. (You may need to cut the tiles on both sides to get a central placement of the tiles if they do not fit evenly with the length of the wall and the same applies at the ceiling and floor.) A joint of 3-4 mm can be expected under normal conditions, but now tiles have emerged that should be set without any joint at all (a foolish idea, it's like inviting Mrs. Moisture to cause trouble behind the tiles). Your choice.
Grouting typically finishes the tiling, except in the aforementioned case in the paragraph above. It should be done diagonally over the joints, but surely you've seen Martin Timell demonstrate it?
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The Builder
It also depends on what kind of substrate you have, i.e., what the wall is made of.
If it's wood, you shouldn't have plaster at all. Then moisture barriers and boards are required.
If it's stone (concrete, brick, lightweight concrete, lightweight clinker, etc.) plastering is correct. You will also have a wall that to some extent withstands moisture penetration without becoming moldy and rotten. But even here, nowadays, barriers are used against moisture penetration. Assuming a stone wall with plaster, the process is as follows:
You start by removing the existing tiles and cleaning the wall from mortar. There are no shortcuts here. An electric hammer drill with a wide chisel and the drilling disconnected is the best tool.
Next, you repair the surface so that large holes 'disappear'. You may need to plaster the entire surface, and if you don't have the plastering technique 'in hand,' you will need to find a mason who can plaster it for you. It doesn't take long and is therefore not a major expense if you do the manual labor, i.e., mix mortar and clean up afterward. A spill board along the wall is then very helpful.
Then, let the plaster dry for a week (preferably more). Afterward, the surface should be moisture-proofed according to all the rules of the art, i.e., in the way described by the VASKA project and further developed by industries in collaboration with insurance companies. (This also applies if you have wood-/board substrate, otherwise you won't get the insurance coverage in the event of a water damage.)
After that, there is debate on the best way to proceed. The moisture barrier is not the best surface to hang/attach tiles on. Then your 6 mm Minerit board might be relevant. It should preferably not be screwed in place since the screw creates a hole in the moisture barrier around the screw. But it is possible to screw with silicone in the hole to seal it. In that case, use nylon plugs and a long screw with FH. (Pre-drill holes in the Minerit board, otherwise it will crack.)
Next, apply tile adhesive and start at the floor and in a left corner after you have measured the lengths on the surfaces and considered the tile dimensions. (You may need to cut the tiles on both sides to get a central placement of the tiles if they do not fit evenly with the length of the wall and the same applies at the ceiling and floor.) A joint of 3-4 mm can be expected under normal conditions, but now tiles have emerged that should be set without any joint at all (a foolish idea, it's like inviting Mrs. Moisture to cause trouble behind the tiles). Your choice.
Grouting typically finishes the tiling, except in the aforementioned case in the paragraph above. It should be done diagonally over the joints, but surely you've seen Martin Timell demonstrate it?
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The Builder
I have no idea... Can't you put tiles on a moisture barrier? I think that's done in 110% of all bathrooms...
I wouldn't want this setup in my bathroom...
The task of the tile's grout is not to keep it waterproof! Underneath the tiles it's (almost) always 100% humid, that's why you have a moisture barrier...
Clarification: In my basement there's a risk of moisture intrusion, so I only had a moisture barrier in the shower corner, in the rest of the room the moisture can move freely... (All according to current regulations)...
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someone has misunderstood something
I obviously shouldn't just have the tiles under the backsplash
moisture barriers, etc., should of course be applied
the thing is, there are clay bricks and leca blocks. not outer walls
but solid internal walls from (clay bricks) the 18xx century and (leca) the 196x century.
the thing is, it's two rooms that are now becoming one larger bathroom.
if I now "fix" a minerit board (fiber cement board) onto this
to get a smooth surface, it effectively becomes the same as plastering it entirely
(? it should be since it's both "stone products")
then use some form of repair plaster in the seams (?) ...
thereafter, moisture barrier all the walls according to the rules of the art.
I can't see how this could be wrong?
(but I've been wrong before)
(the old tiles are from the '60s and not moisture-proofed and have come loose here and there
and there's no moisture behind them at all....)
I obviously shouldn't just have the tiles under the backsplash
moisture barriers, etc., should of course be applied
the thing is, there are clay bricks and leca blocks. not outer walls
but solid internal walls from (clay bricks) the 18xx century and (leca) the 196x century.
the thing is, it's two rooms that are now becoming one larger bathroom.
if I now "fix" a minerit board (fiber cement board) onto this
to get a smooth surface, it effectively becomes the same as plastering it entirely
(? it should be since it's both "stone products")
then use some form of repair plaster in the seams (?) ...
thereafter, moisture barrier all the walls according to the rules of the art.
I can't see how this could be wrong?
(but I've been wrong before
) (the old tiles are from the '60s and not moisture-proofed and have come loose here and there
and there's no moisture behind them at all....)
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At ex Bauhaus, there are special fillers, joint tapes, and nylon plugs to mechanically fix boards with (used together with adhesive). These are for their lux-like boards, but they might work for your project... Here is something similar to what I did...
I hope this is a joke?! Otherwise, it's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.imported_Byggaren said:
And how do you mean that the tile setting would mess with the sealing layer?
Since you apparently have more experience and knowledge in this area than I do, it would be interesting with a description of what you think is wrong instead of just rejecting what I have written.bigsnucke said:
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Builder
Please feel free to explain to me what is dumb about it.ACME said:
If you place a glass of regular tap water on the kitchen counter (or somewhere else) for a few months, you'll probably realize what clean water can cause if left alone. Then imagine this water between and behind the tiles because the joints are not sealed with grout.
Bathrooms are called hygiene rooms because we wash ourselves there, but a bathroom that is not hygienic is not a pleasant place to take care of your hygiene.
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Byggaren
I'm not really that knowledgeable about waterproofing, but screwing down nierit boards outside the waterproofing seems really stupid to me.
Whether you have grout or not shouldn't matter as it still gets damp behind the tiles....
bigsnucke: big thanks, I'll check out these things (Y)
Whether you have grout or not shouldn't matter as it still gets damp behind the tiles....
bigsnucke: big thanks, I'll check out these things (Y)
In response to the question of what I think is wrong with importerad_byggaren's reasoning:
1 According to all manufacturers of waterproofing membranes, it is possible to install tiles on them (that's basically how it's done...).
2 Screwing a lot of holes in the waterproofing is unnecessarily foolish if it's not absolutely necessary.
3 Tile grout is not waterproof. Tiles + grout are great as protection for the actual water barrier, the moisture barrier.
Furthermore; I am not an experienced bathroom builder, but most of this can be read about, among other places, in this forum.
1 According to all manufacturers of waterproofing membranes, it is possible to install tiles on them (that's basically how it's done...).
2 Screwing a lot of holes in the waterproofing is unnecessarily foolish if it's not absolutely necessary.
3 Tile grout is not waterproof. Tiles + grout are great as protection for the actual water barrier, the moisture barrier.
Furthermore; I am not an experienced bathroom builder, but most of this can be read about, among other places, in this forum.
The experts do not debate at all. There is no one who builds as you describe, screwing a Minerit board on top of the waterproofing layer. That would be going against industry standards, completely losing insurance protection and material supplier guarantees. There is no reason to do it; the adhesive's adherence to the waterproofing layer is never a problem. Moreover, it would be a directly inferior solution. Screw holes in the waterproofing layer are the biggest risk factor today, and with your solution, you get lots of such weak points.imported_Byggaren said:
I have never heard of this solution and am genuinely curious if you came up with it yourself or if you have any single source for it?
The grout has no waterproofing function. There is not the slightest disadvantage to setting tiles without grout. It is always soaking wet behind the tiles in the shower, whether they are grouted or not.imported_Byggaren said: